Alternate "Hiding the Ring" strategies

[Eldar14]

On Hiding the Ring in Such a Fashion That Sauron Could not Find It:

I'm sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to hide the ring so that Sauron couldn't find it. Sauron's connection with the ring, and his desire for it to be returned to him are too great for any hiding spot to succesfully safeguard it.

For example, where was the ring for years leading up to LOTR? It was in Hobbiton, for a relatively short time compared to how long it was lost. Sauron was just starting to return to power, yet he was still able to locate the ring, down to a specific person living across the continent among a race of people he had never heard of before. Yes, he did find this out via Gollum, but it was the great power of the ring that led Gollum to Mordor to let Sauron interrogate him. It was no coincidence, it was the power of the ring and its desire to return.

So, say the ring was hidden on an island somwhere. Eventually, Sauron would somehow find out that it was there. The power of the ring would assure that. Somehow, he would find out. So, he would either send one of the riders, if they were able to travel over the ocean, or he would send a group of corsairs. The corsairs would probably try to take the ring for themselves, but as with all who are drawn under the rings power, they would fail, and the ring would eventually step-stone its way from person to person until it returned to Sauron.

Say the ring was hidden in a deep chasm. Very similar story: Sauron finds out, sends someone, it eventually returns. Pretty much, no matter where the ring was hidden, it would be recoverable, and would return.

With regards to the ocean, I'm pretty sure it would manage to make itself back to land by its own power. The ring has considerable power, and could probably harness some of the powers of nation to make it back to land. All it would have to do is take control of a fish, have it eat the ring and then get caught by fishermen. Bam. The rings back on land. All of the existing examples of things being lost in the sea were things which didn't have a will of their own. Also, Sauron's connection to the ring would be a beacon pointing to its location stronger than any radar tool which has been invented yet.

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On Hiding the Ring Instead of Destroying It:

However, the entire argument is moot. No matter whether the ring could be hidden, destroying it was the only viable option.

The ring contains a considerable amount of Sauron's power. When Sauron created the ring, he invested immeasurable amounts of his power into it, and thus created a link between himself and the ring which is entirely unique in the world of Middle Earth. This link makes it so that the ring isn't just a tool which Sauron uses, or even a tool which uses Sauron, but the ring is an actual part of Sauron.

Sauron can not be defeated while the ring still exists, because destroying Sauron without destroying the ring leaves a part of Sauron, as was evidenced the first time Sauron fell to the sword. He was destroyed. His physical body, dead. However, whenever the ring survived, it managed to prevent his soul from departing, and allowed him to return back to life to lead his armies to war once again. As long as the ring exists, Sauron will return again and again, no matter how many times he is defeated.

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On Destroying the Ring Elsewhere:

The ring COULD NOT be destroyed anywhere other than the Crack of Doom.

It's not a matter of whether other things are powerful enough or strong enough to destroy the ring, it's a matter of the rings entirely unique existance, and its ties to Sauron. A very important part of the ring is how it's tied to other things. It's tied to Sauron. It's tied to anyone who's ever worn it. It's tied to anyone who's ever desired it. It would therefore be sensible that it would be tied to its place of creation.

Since the ring was created in the Crack of Doom, it is tied to the Crack of Doom. Part of the power in the ring comes from it being a ring of power, part of it comes from the part of himself that Sauron placed into the ring, part of it comes directly from the fiery power of the volcano, and parts of it may come from other sources of which I'm not aware. The ring is tied to the Crack of Doom, and to melt it down in any other forge is futile. As the ring is heated and beaten by lava, it could merely draw on its ties with the Crack of Doom.

So, as long as the forge or volcano into which the ring is thrown into is not as large as the Crack of Doom, the most powerful volcano in Middle Earth, it won't touch the ring. Also, the connection between the ring and the volcano explains any destruction which occurs to the volcano after the ring is destroyed. The ring is connected to Sauron ... ring destroyed leads to Sauron destroyed. So it makes sense that if destroying the ring destroys the volcano, the ring and volcano may be similarly tied.

Also, in regards to whether one of the Valar could destroy the ring, I don't think they'd be able to. The ring is not merely a ring of power, but it's a ring of power which is incricately connected and entertwined with an actual being. I would like to believe that this protects the ring from normal destruction by any person or Valar. Swords can't strike down Rings. Hammers can't crush an invisible soul.

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On How Ungoliant Can Threaten the Vastly More Powerful Silmarils While Valar can't Touch the Ring

However, since the ring can't be destroyed, how can the Silmarils, which are vastly more powerful and mystical, be threatened by mere Ungoliant.

This is because of Ungoliant's nature: Ungoliant is a creature of dark, she is the antithesis of light. The Silmarils are embodied by light, they are light captured in crystal form. However, Ungoliant's sould power and desire in life are the destruction of light. Therefore, she is the Silmarils weakness, the one crack in their army. She can threaten the Silmarils because the whole essence of her existence is to threaten that which the Silmarils are crafted from and represent.

However, if something can be destroyed by that which represents, why not find that antithesis for the ring? Well, by the nature of the ring, this antithesis is useless, and actually exists in the book. In much the same way that the Silmarils embody light, the ring embodies desire. And as Ungoliant embodies the opposite of light, Tom Bombadil embodies the opposite of desire. He has no desire. However, for the same reason he can stand up to the ring, he can't do anything to it. He has no desire, and therefore, as he says, he would misplace it like some worthless trinket.

Maybe this could be another possible explanation for Tom Bombadil. Maybe everything in the world needs its opposite. Both of the trees had the other tree. The Silmarils have Ungoliant. Elves have orcs. Gandalf has Saruman. And what does the ring have? There's no clear answer, but maybe Tom Bombadil could fill that spot.

[Morsul the Dark]

Here's an Idea ...or...this

for the record unless somehow actually told him where it was i dont think Sauron would know. I mean Frodo(again i come back to this scene) was about 20 feet away from the witchking in mordor and nobody noticed.

ITs was on the bottom of the anduin for 2 and a half milenia and yet no one found it(except deagel) and gollum killed him for it(although Im willing to bet it could have been any "pretty thing" and he would have killed it smeagel was already evil at heart in my opinion.

But then Gollum had it for 500 years putting it on and talking it off so routinely its obsene to think sauron wouldnt have noticed.

so personally i think hiding it is a very feesable idea especially if those who hid it were kamakaze mercenaries who would die not revealing the secret hidin spot. like galadriel said at the begging of the fellowship or tree beard in ttt the ring eventually passed out of all knowledge.

although this could be why noone noticed frodo had the ring

[Eldar14]

It was on the bottom of the Anduin for 2 and a half millenia ... and it still managed to resurface.

It was uder a mountain for 500 years ... and it still managed to see the light of day again.

You just give examples where the ring was lost ... for a while. Sauron will live forever as long as the ring is whole. He can wait.

Also, during both of these examples Sauron was in a state of regaining most of his power, and probably spent most of that time completely bodiless and powerless.

And in regards to the ring not being noticed on Frodo, that's kind of the whole reason armies worth of men and elves fought hopeless battle after hopeless battle; Sauron was distracted and had his eyes pointed outside of Mordor.

And as for the ring passing out of knowledge: Sauron never forgot about the ring. And as long as he remembers, it doesn't really matter if everyone else has forgotten.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Here's a thought:

The fortunes of the "good guys" in Middle-earth
can (and do) wax and wane. After all, the Last Alliance
defeated Sauron with the Ring. It seems conceivable
that if the Ring was kept hidden until a time when
Sauron was on the defensive, perhaps even
driven away from Mordor, then a troop of good guys,
a sort of superfellowship, could waltz into Mordor and semi-coerce/
encourage/etc. the ringbearer to dispose of the ring.

[Thalion]

While Elrond (or Gandalf?) dismissed the ocean
solution (presumably on the suggestion of
JRRT) it has some merits. Wouldn't Ulmo,
one of the most (the most?) committed to
Middle-earth vala, have had an interest in safeguarding it?

The Valar would not become involved in the troubles of Middle Earth...thats why they sent the Istari...and removed Valinor and the undying lands from the reaches of the earth...they wouldn't forsake Middle-Earth entirely...but they decided to have no directly influence...heck even the Istari weren't supposted to have commit and overt actions, but rather guide the people's of middle earth...this is also why it is doubtful that they would have allowed the ring to come to Aman or the undying lands or that Ulmo would hide the ring...additionally this rules out them "chucking it into the void" or Ilman or any outwordly part of Arda, if they even had the power to do so...Morgoth's binding was a special case, probably with the authority granted by none other than Illuvatar

Another thought. If the "good guys" had gotten
control of Orthanc could it have been sealed there
(covering the top entrance with more orthanc rock
and barring windows with orthanc rock?

Problems with this are 1) where do you get Orthanc rock that looks like it was formed from the Earth itself and not by human hands? 2) How would they get Saruman out of Orthanc? 3) Gandalf says in Two Towers that although they cannot destroy Orthanc, he isn't sure of the capabilities of Sauron...so it may not be safe there anyways...

The fortunes of the "good guys" in Middle-earth
can (and do) wax and wane. After all, the Last Alliance
defeated Sauron with the Ring. It seems conceivable
that if the Ring was kept hidden until a time when
Sauron was on the defensive, perhaps even
driven away from Mordor, then a troop of good guys,
a sort of superfellowship, could waltz into Mordor and semi-coerce/
encourage/etc. the ringbearer to dispose of the ring.

This Last Alliance was able to defeat Sauron because Gondor was strong and the elves were still inhabited in Middle Earth...at the time of LOTR this was not the case, and I think it is said specifically in LOTR (possibly the council of Elrond) that there exists no power left in Middle Earth to hold back the enemy of the ring is not destroyed...additionally, the battle of Pelenor almost ends badly for the combined forces of Rohan and Gondor and they are getting their butts kicked outside the Gates of Mordor before the ring is actually destroyed...therefore, I think hiding the ring would not have solved their problems as they would eventually be defeated anyways and then Sauron would have an easier time searching all of Middle Earth for the ring...

Lastly...hiding the ring would only have been a temporary solution...it was "hidden" at the bottom of the Aunduin...it was "hidden" at the bottom of the Misty Mountains in the keeping of one who never intended EVER to give it up or even come out into the daylight...therefore giving it to Gollum to keep on an island would only lead eventually to some other power/creater/being finding him there and most likely bringing the ring back to Middle Earth

[Sardy]

Why not send the Ring to Valinor with the Elves?

[narfforc]

Because it would not solve the problem of Sauron, he would still exist, as long as the Ring did.

[Sardy]

Yes, but certainly the Valar would be better equipped to deal with the Ring, perhaps even destroy it or undo its magic?

[narfforc]

The Ring was a corrupter, think of the damage it would do in Valinor.

[Sardy]

I would think that the Valar are "above" the lure of the Ring and its corruptive power. It would all seem a childish toy to them...

[narfforc]

The Ainur could be corrupted, the risk of sending the ring to Valinor was too great. Who knows whether the Valar had the power to resist this thing.

Edit: Exerpt from The Council of Elrond: But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess, said Elrond. And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not recieve it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-Earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.

[Thalion]

Why not send the Ring to Valinor with the Elves?

Ibid what Narfforc said, on top of that, reread my previous post...if the Valar themselves wouldn't allow Gandalf or the Istari to show their true might in Middle Earth in order to help men overcome the might of Sauron, then it can be reasoned they certainly wouldnt just accept the ring to keep it for safe keeping...asides from that, it wouldn't solve anything...Sauron would have won regardless unless the ring was destroyed as it was...