The Hobbit - Chapter 07 - Queer Lodgings

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This chapter opens with a sentence on which Tolkien based a drawing: "Bilbo Woke Up with the Early Sun in His Eyes". I have it in J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator, by Hammond and Scull, but haven't been able to find it online. If there's interest, I'll see if I can scan it.

At any rate, the Eagle's eyrie looks like a place I wouldn't want to sleep, but it was a safe haven for Bilbo and the Dwarves. It doesn't look like he appreciated that at the moment, but another benefit came from the Eagles' rescue - they travelled farther faster than they could have otherwise. I must confess, I have enough fear of heights that I can understand the hobbit clsing his eyes!

The Eagles' farewell and Gandalf's reply are the kind of thing fans like to use. Have you ever said it to your fellow LotR friends?

Do you remember first reading about the 'Someone' Gandalf mentions with trepidation and/or suspense? What did you expect? A 'skin-changer' is unusual in Tolkien's Lengendarium, though the Silmarillion and other stories do mention people with similar abilities. Where would you place Beorn amongst the peoples of Middle-earth? Later in the chapter, we find out a bit more; what do you think of him?

Gandalf's answer on the reason for the name "Carrock" is interesting, coming from a linguist! No etymology - an inside joke, perhaps? It reminds me of Lewis Carroll's "When I use a word, it means precisely what I mean it to..."

Any speculation on the reason for the bees' unusually large size? The intelligent animals seem like a touch of Narnia in the story, though the Chronicles were of course not yet written.

Gandalf's tactic in combining a fascinating story with unpleasant facts (unwanted guests, in this case) sounds like a good example for writers, film makers, and teachers to follow. It's a fun passage to read, isn't it?!

Again, we have the group spending several days in a safe haven, though not without a feeling of lurking danger, both outside the hall and ahead of them. There is a much-neglected poem here, "The wind was on the withered heath..." Do you like it? Why do you think it's not as popular as many other Tolkien poems?

Like in Rivendell, they are not only fed while staying there, but also provided with food for the journey. Additionally, they are given good advice on travelling through Mirkwood.

At the end of the chapter, Gandalf again leaves them alone. This definitely gives the story a "coming-of-age" feeling. He helps when necessary, but gives them the opportunity to fend for themselves as much as possible. In this context, we do not know where he is going or why he has to leave, but from other sources (UT, 'Quest of Erebor', if I recall rightly) we know that he and the others of the White Council are fighting the Necromancer, aka Sauron.

The chapter ends with their entry into Mirkwood.

It's a fairly long chapter - what are your favourite or most memorable parts? What do you think is significant for the further story? Is there anything that will be important later, in LotR?

My favourite quote in this chapter, one that makes me chuckle and is definitely usable in real life:

You had better go to bed, your wits are sleepy.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Estelyn

Do you remember first reading about the 'Someone' Gandalf mentions with trepidation and/or suspense? What did you expect? A 'skin-changer' is unusual in Tolkien's Lengendarium, though the Silmarillion and other stories do mention people with similar abilities. Where would you place Beorn amongst the peoples of Middle-earth? Later in the chapter, we find out a bit more; what do you think of him?

I didn't know what to expect, other than something interesting from Tolkien. A skin changer may be unusual in Tolkien's Legendarium, but it's a lot closer to Nordic roots of myth and folklore. This part of The Hobbit (Beorn) feels very Northern to me, and is therefore very pleasing to me. I like him. I like how he is gruff and suspicious on one hand while being fiercely loyal and giving on the other. He is 'not tame'. To find out that he is good (as well as ruthless) is to experience a hint of eucatastrophe. Very pleasing!

I haven't a clue as to why the bees were so large. He needs lots of bees to have lots of honey, being a bear half the time. It adds to the giganticness of Beorn, I suppose. And the fact that his servants are all intelligent animals increases Beorn's seeming animality; we have foreshadowing of his bear side in all this animality. It occurs to me that the bees are perhaps totemic.

The poem enhances the Northern feel of the chapter. But the poem is not as good as most of Tolkien's poems. The rhythm isn't as tight, it doesn't scan as cleanly, and there are lots of 'being verbs' cluttering it up. Other than the technical limitations of it, it is dark; and it has a rather insubstantial primary image: the wind. Not one of his best.

My favorite parts (not in order) are the separated entry of the Dwarves, a replay of the first chapter, allowing Bilbo and the reader to be "in on it" with Beorn as the one upon whom is being played a rather dangerous practical joke. It's fun.

Another favorite is the intelligent functionality of the animals, who although they do human seeming chores, do them without losing their identity as animals. The sheep don't go about on two legs. But why sheep? Somehow they're safe with a skin-changer!?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

But why sheep? Somehow they're safe with a skin-changer!?

...and as a man he keeps cattle and horses which are nearly as marvellous as himself. They work for him and talk to him. He does not eat them. Neither does he hunt or eat wild animals.

This actually leads to an interesting question - were all beornings vegetarians, or just skin-changers, or just Beorn?
And were there more skin-changers than Beorn, or have I been under a wrong impression? The bears that had danced in Beorn's yard, were they skin-changers too or ordinary bears?

This is one of my favourite chapters in TH. The atmosphere is just great, but most credit goes to Beorn. He's a good character and a fascinating personality. I've always liked how treats Bilbo, and how this resembles the eagles' behaviour towards him.

[JennyHallu]

Quote:

...and as a man he keeps cattle and horses which are nearly as marvellous as himself. They work for him and talk to him. He does not eat them. Neither does he hunt or eat wild animals.

Another thing interesting about this I didn't notice before. The "as a man" phrase--how far does that go? Is Tolkien implying that Beorn is a vegetarian only in man-form? Does the bear-form still need to occasionally eat meat, and the animals who serve him are saved from that by bear-Beorn doing his hunting outside his enclave?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Another thing interesting about this I didn't notice before. The "as a man" phrase--how far does that go? Is Tolkien implying that Beorn is a vegetarian only in man-form? Does the bear-form still need to occasionally eat meat, and the animals who serve him are saved from that by bear-Beorn doing his hunting outside his enclave?

Actually, that came to my mind also. But even as a bear it wouldn't be necessary to him to eat meat; bears eat berries etc. as well, they're not pure meat-eaters. The other thing is, that can a bear survive with only berries and such; it's a big animal and needs lots of food. I will post reply if I find information on it.

[JennyHallu]

It was my understanding that bears are omnivorous. In the pacific Northwest of the US, Grizzly bears are a major predator for salmon.

[Thinlómien]

A book that I found from my bookshelf says that in late summer berries are the most important food source for brown bear, but it can also eat apples or oats. It eats also insects and honey. So it seems that bears can do well without meat (at least during summer). The interesting question is now, does Beorn eat meat in his bear-form or not?

[JennyHallu]

Some bears, such as the Panda bear, are almost exclusively herbivorous. The polar bear, however is exclusively a hunter. All bears, however, are classified as carnivores.

The average size of these bears is difficult to pinpoint, because it seems to depend greatly on the food sources available. The island grizzlies of Alaska (Kodiak and Admiralty) are considered the largest land carnivores in the world, and live on a diet of fish and other rich food. The inland animals are smaller by some 30%.

...

Brown bears are technically carnivores, but in practice most of their diet consists of plant matter such as sedges, grasses, bulbs, seeds, berries, and roots. They will also eat insects, fish, and small mammals. Some of these bears have even developed predatory practices on large animals, including moose, caribou, and elk.

There is a species of bear, the sloth bear, whose diet consists almost exclusively of termites.


I'm getting all of this information from http://www.bears.org

[Thinlómien]

I guess Anduin Vales is not such a harsh place like Alaska, more like Finland or probably nicer, so the bears there could survive as vegetarians (especially if they were sometimes humans).

[JennyHallu]

I was thinking more that the size of Beorn the bear indicated that there was probably fish in his diet, akin to Kodiac bears, especially since that is one animal he never talks to, and it's also a very common meat supplement to American bears...(we do have a lot more bears, and bigger ones) And the ultra harsh Alaskan climate is largely myth...look at a world atlas, and compare the latitude of Alaska to that of Norway, Sweden, and Finland. The climate is probably much the same. Sorry, Lommy, but compared to all the Finns here, I'm a spoiled southerner...look at Georgia (the American state, sorry HI) and see how huge the difference is.

[Thinlómien]

But there's the Golf stream in North Europe which makes Scandinavia's climate inhabitable for humans. As far as I know, there's no such stream near Alaska.

I think that Beorn was something like Kodiac bear, too, because brown bears (which live in Finland) are relatively small for bears. But the quote said he ate no animals and fish are animals too, aren't they? So maybe he ate meat in bear form. Or then Tolkien just didn't use the word 'animal' for all animals but just for birds and mammals?

EDIT: I wouldn't maybe use the term 'wild animal' for a fish, though!

[JennyHallu]

Yeah, I was only thinking he might eat fish in bear form.

Alaska's climate isn't warm, but temperatures run at about 60-80 degrees fahrenheit in summer, depending on where you are. It is a huge state, and a lot of it is fairly warm...however I'm not familiar with the climate in Finland. From some quick reading I just did on the internet they look comparable, but I'm converting the Celsius to Fahrenheit fairly roughly in my head. Here's a link to some basic info on Alaskan weather...

And then we'd better get back on topic.

[Thinlómien]

That summer temperature sounds quite like Finland. And now to the topic.

-----thinking of something meaningful to write--------------------------------------------------

When rereading the Hobbit, the end of this chapter always makes me a bit sad. There's no Gandalf anymore to help them. I think he (Gandalf) has a bad way of doing that. Leaving when he's needed. Of course you can argue that his leaving is essential for the other characters to grow up, but if we don't think of character development or anything like that outside the world of the books, he really has a bad habit on that. But on the other hand, he's always needed. So maybe I'm just babbling nonsense.

[Aiwendil]

Estelyn wrote:

Gandalf's answer on the reason for the name "Carrock" is interesting, coming from a linguist!

It seems to me that Gandalf is having a little joke here. Bilbo asks why Beorn calls it "the Carrock" and Gandalf pretends the question is why he calls it "the Carrock" instead of why he calls it "the Carrock". Reminds me a bit of Goldberry's answer to the question "Who is Tom Bombadil?": "He is", as if the question were which of the people present goes by that name.

Incidentally, I don't think Tolkien would have called himself a "linguist" . . .

Gandalf's tactic in combining a fascinating story with unpleasant facts (unwanted guests, in this case) sounds like a good example for writers, film makers, and teachers to follow. It's a fun passage to read, isn't it?!

It certainly is! Like many passages in The Hobbit (and a few in LotR), this has genuine value as humour in and of itself. I think that many people get too focused on analysing the tone of The Hobbit and concluding that passages like this make it "light", as if their only effect is to detract from the gravity of the work. Maybe they do detract from its gravity, but they also add something.

There is a much-neglected poem here, "The wind was on the withered heath..." Do you like it? Why do you think it's not as popular as many other Tolkien poems?

You know, I rather like Dwarvish poetry. At any rate, I like the few examples of it that Tolkien gives. In The Hobbit, the Dwarves always use the same form for their serious poetry (i.e. excluding "Chip the glasses, crack the plates") - four-line stanzas in what I'd call iambic tetrameter (octosyllabic, if you prefer), with a rhyme scheme aaba, and internal rhyme on "b" between the two halves of the third line. I like this form, and it seems especially suitable for the Dwarves somehow, perhaps because the internal rhyme gives it a certain rhythmic/chanting quality.

Having said that, I must also agree with much that littlemanpoet says about this particular poem. It is a bit weaker than most of Tolkien's stuff and, in particular, weaker than the Dwarvish poem in chapter 1.

JennyHallu wrote:

Some bears, such as the Panda bear, are almost exclusively herbivorous. The polar bear, however is exclusively a hunter. All bears, however, are classified as carnivores.

Well, bears are "carnivores" by taxonomic classification; i.e. they are in the order carnivora. That name for the order is unfortunate, since there are both carnivores and omnivores in it and there are also carnivores outside it. Incidentally, the classification of the giant panda as a "bear" is controversial; many believe that it is a member of the raccoon family and others place it in a family by itself (well, along with the "lesser" panda).

[Tuor in Gondolin]

WARNING: Never send a copy of The Hobbit to
Steven Colbert (of The Colbert Report--- pronunced, of
course, Colbear Repor) since
he will be terrified of Beorn! And he'll
probably rip the book.

[Aiwendil]

WARNING: Never send a copy of The Hobbit to
Steven Colbert (of The Colbert Report--- pronunced, of
course, Colbear Repor) since
he will be terrified of Beorn! And he'll
probably rip the book.

Actually, he's a big Tolkien fan. But this is really neither here nor there.

[Raynor]

Incidentally, I don't think Tolkien would have called himself a "linguist" . . .

He called himself so, (a "professional linguist") in letter #188 - though he indeed declined that label in other ocasions.

In Myths transformed, Tolkien confessed that he dislikes the presence of so many talking animals, but admits that they cannot be 'excised' from the story. Interestingly enough, he doesn't attribute them a 'rational soul' (neither did he to Huan, Thorondor (blasphemy!), orcs or trolls).

[Bêthberry]

Well now, perhaps it is safe for *Bethberry* to tread the thread without drawing undue attention for a bear's diet.

Originally Posted by Raynor

He called himself so, (a "professional linguist") in letter #188 - though he indeed declined that label in other ocasions.

The term 'linguist' has seen several meanings. It could mean simply one who speaks several languages--a polyglot--hence Tolkien's modification of the word with "professional." At the same time, during Tolkien's life time his field of studies was in some measure eclipsed by the new field of language study, linguistics. His field is referred to more often these days as philology or historical linguistics.

Like Aiwendil, I don't think the humour is misplaced in this chapter. It demonstrates the same kind of pattern that Tolkien follows in LotR: several scrapes and adventures followed by respite in a safe house. And what a safe house! It reminds me a bit of Old English mead halls, the large, central hall where guests were fed, entertained, and slept. Well, many medieval castles began that way also. Besides, Beorn is a handy "deus ex machina" to provide supplies and mounts. No Holiday Inn nor Hertz!

The way the dwarves and Bilbo easily take off their clothes, swim, and then dry in the sun (presumably still naked) reminds me rather directly that this is a boys' story. Girls at this time in Tolkien's culture certainly were officially taught to display extreme modesty and were never allowed to see each other's bodies in such an unassuming manner. In some parts, they were even forced to bathe wearing undergarments so they wouldn't see their own body!

I think it is regretful that Tolkien came to dislike the talking animals. They fit so well with the fairy tale aura the story develops, as is Gandalf's last warning:

Straight through the forest is your way now now. Don't stray off the track . . . . DON'T LEAVE THE PATH.

And does anyone doubt that they will?

[Aiwendil]

Straight through the forest is your way now now. Don't stray off the track . . . . DON'T LEAVE THE PATH.

Good point, Bethberry. The "prohibition" (always violated, of course) is one of the common elements in such tales that Tolkien mentions in "On Fairy Stories".

[JennyHallu]

I don't think that the talking animals themselves were the problem...it was more that Middle-Earth grew so far away from the child's fairy-tale. They no longer fit in the world, but couldn't be separated from the story...Perhaps that was the source of Tolkien's frustration.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And were there more skin-changers than Beorn, or have I been under a wrong impression?

He's the only one Tolkien wrote of. Which is not to say that Beorn's the only one in Middle Earth. Since Tolkien put him in, he set the precedent (speaking as an active rpg'er ). Skin-changers are part of the stuff of Nordic folklore and legend, too. Beorn lives rather far north in Middle Earth. And I agree on the fish from the Anduin as probably being a source of food, though Tolkien doesn't mention it.

[Raynor]

He's the only one Tolkien wrote of.

Not the only one :

Originally Posted by The return journey, TH

Beorn indeed became a great chief afterwards in those regions and ruled a wide land between the mountains and the wood; and it is said that for many generations the men of his line had the power of taking bear's shape, and some were grim men and bad, but most were in heart like Beorn, if less in size and strength.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Not the only one :

Good point. I always have liked Tolkien's trick or pechant, call it what you like, of saying it is said that .... It adds a certain flavor to the text that just spices it, if you take my meaning.

[A_Brandybuck]

'Queer Lodgings' is in my opinion a very very interesting chapter of 'The Hobbit'. In the whole context, it seems to me, that this is the last 'safe harbor' before the really perilous voyage through Mirkwood. Actually Beorn's house seems to me 'more last safe harbour' than Elrond's house, because the threat of the perilous wood is directly in front of their feet.

Anyway, I think Elrond's house and Beorn's house are sharing some commonness. Both are just houses in the wilderness and the company is 'invited' to take some comfort. Very different are indeed the inhabitants of both houses. Elves in one hand and animals in the other hand. These animals make me always thinking about the fox in the beginning of 'Fellowship of the Ring', who wondered about the Hobbits in the wood.
I think, that we can see in those little details anew, that the 'Lord of the Rings' was originally planned to be a sequel to 'The Hobbit' in the timeline and in the narrative style, although there was changed much.

I always try to imagine, how the chapter would have been, if it had been written without the childish structure of the book.

I think. that there Beorn has lived in a germanic nave and the animals are just the household of a big chief (Beorn). The Dwarves have come in and Beorn heart the stoyr and has gone in the night with some other chiefs of his tribes to verify the story of the Dwarves. Just some thoughts..... :-)

The Dwarves decreased in my reputation at the end of the chapter. This has happened because of two details:

1. They just wanted to steal the ponies, although they had a good time in Beorn's house. They ate and slept there, had some comfort in the wilderness and Beorn lent them the ponies and how does the Dwarves want to thank him? By stealing the ponies......

2. The Dwarves (especially Thorin) get angry because of Gandalf's leaving. I mean, I could understand, that the are not happy, that Gandalf will leave them just before the most dangerous part of their adventure. But they have known this before. Gandalf has gone with them a long time, longer as he wanted to do and the Dwarves surely knew that. And then they get angry,.....

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by A_Brandybuck

The Dwarves decreased in my reputation at the end of the chapter. This has happened because of two details:

1. They just wanted to steal the ponies, although they had a good time in Beorn's house. They ate and slept there, had some comfort in the wilderness and Beorn lent them the ponies and how does the Dwarves want to thank him? By stealing the ponies......

2. The Dwarves (especially Thorin) get angry because of Gandalf's leaving. I mean, I could understand, that the are not happy, that Gandalf will leave them just before the most dangerous part of their adventure. But they have known this before. Gandalf has gone with them a long time, longer as he wanted to do and the Dwarves surely knew that. And then they get angry,.....

These points remind me that this is a children's book. The Dwarves are acting more like spoiled brat children while Bilbo by contrast has been showing signs of growing up. Tolkien does this little literary trick to emphasize Bilbo's comparative maturity. It works fine in TH, but you can bet he was more subtle in LotR.

[Formendacil]

I seem to continue to lag behind in these discussions... Ah well, perhaps this week I shall catch back up to the current chapter. Meanwhile, I have impressions to record...

This chapter is about Beorn, and as such, I think the effect that it has on the reader is in a large part tied directly to how one feels about Beorn. Personally, although he takes Thorin & Co. in, and although they are well-treated, and kept quite safe, I don't get the same warm feeling from Beorn that I do from Elrond- and it's more than just the whole big bumblebees buzzing around. Tolkien shows, as we move from wholly safe characters to not-so-safe half-bears, the progression of the story as Bilbo moves farther and farther from Hobbiton. No doubt, had he met Beorn before Tom, William, the Great Goblin, Gollum, and the Wargs, he would have seemed a much more malevolent creature than the refuge that he seems here.

The ambivalence surrounding the "goodness" of Beorn is different, it seems to me, than the clearcut "Good And Evil" sides normally associated with simplistic Fairy Tales. We are told that Beorn is good, that his cause is just, and all the evidence says that he's on the good side, but thinking about Beorn, I can't help but think of him as a rather ambiguous character. He's rather too eager to take up the sword (figuratively speaking, since he's not a swordsman) against orks and Wargs- and Dwarves, if they should be aiding the orks. Beorn, it seems to me, has a very rigid, and possibly rather narrow, view of what is Right and what is Wrong, and although he's clearly presented as a Good Guy, I can't help but get shivers from him, and I don't think I'd enjoy a stay in his house...

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I have finally located Tolkien's eyrie drawing online. Here it is:



And this is how he pictured Beorn's Hall: