The Arkenstone - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gorhilion · 02-27-2006, 10:51 PM

What happened to the Arkenstone after it was found?

A_Brandybuck · 02-28-2006, 01:13 AM

The Dwarves worked with the Arkenstone, so that the Stone became a very beautiful jewel. And it became a heirloom of the Dwarven-King of Durin's House until Smaug sacked Erebor.
Thórin and fellows got the stone back from Smaug and it was buried with Thórin under the mountains. That was it.

Gorhilion · 02-28-2006, 06:30 PM

Hmmm. It seems kind of a waste of such a beautiful jewel, to be buried with a dead person. It should be passed on to the generations to come. At least thats what I think.

JennyHallu · 02-28-2006, 06:38 PM

But this way it cannot be used against the dwarves as Bilbo used it to force an alliance.

Gorhilion · 02-28-2006, 07:27 PM

What happened to the rest of the treasure that Smaug hoarded after he was defeated.

AragornII · 02-28-2006, 08:18 PM

Smaug's treasure was distributed among the people living around the Lonley Mountain. Bard got a share to help rebuild Dale and Esgaroth (Laketown), the Elven King got some of it, Bilbo got his fourteenth share, and the rest just stayed with Dain, King Under the Mountain.

As for the Arkenstone, in the chapter "The Return Journey", it says

Quote:

They buried Thorin deep beneath the Mountain, and Bard laid the Arkenstone upon his breast... Upon his tomb, the Elvenking then laid Orcrist, the elvish sword that had been taken from Thorin in captivity. It is said in songs that it gleamed ever in the dark if foes approached, and the fortress of the dwarves could not be taken by surprise.

This sounds like the dwarves had access to Thorin's tomb, if they could tell that Orcrist was glowing. So, this would mean that they could get to the Arkenstone too, unless they just had a little window at the door. I guess they just considered it too sacred to disturb. I think it could still be used like Bilbo, only it's much harder to get ahold of now. It could still be done though.

Gorhilion · 02-28-2006, 11:01 PM

Thanks for all the answers!

Earendilyon · 03-01-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AragornII

This sounds like the dwarves had access to Thorin's tomb, if they could tell that Orcrist was glowing.

From you own quote from The Hobbit:

Quote:

Upon his tomb, the Elvenking then laid Orcrist, the elvish sword that had been taken from Thorin in captivity.

So, the sword lay upon Thorin's tomb, not in it.

JennyHallu · 03-01-2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendilyon

From you own quote from The Hobbit:
So, the sword lay upon Thorin's tomb, not in it.

Perhaps the dwarves built a special holder for it in whatever marker they put up. But I agree, there wasn't any way on earth that tomb was going to be opened back up unless Thorin Oakenshield showed up alive and hale at the door for tea.

Raynor · 03-01-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

But I agree, there wasn't any way on earth that tomb was going to be opened back up unless Thorin Oakenshield showed up alive and hale at the door for tea.

You would be surprised...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Late writings, HoME XII

The Dwarves add that at that time Aule gained them also this privilege that distinguished them from Elves and Men: that the spirit of each of the Fathers (such as Durin) should, at the end of the long span of life allotted to Dwarves, fall asleep, but then lie in a tomb of his own body, at rest, and there its weariness and any hurts that had befallen it should be amended. Then after long years he should arise and take up his kingship again.

Findegil · 03-01-2006, 01:58 PM

Nice try, but Thorin was not Durin and so he would not be alive again.

Smaugs hord was not distributed in the way told here. "The Hobbit"; chapter 18: "The return journey":

Quote:

There was, of course, no longer any question of dividing the hoard in such shares as had been planned, to Balin and Dwalin, and Dori and Nori and Ori, and Oin and Gloin, and Bifur and Bofur and Bombur-or to Bilbo. Yet a fourteenth share of all the silver and gold, wrought and unwrought, was given up to Bard; for Dain said: "We will honour the agreement of the dead, and he has now the Arkenstone in his keeping."
Even a fourteenth share was wealth exceedingly great, greater than that of many mortal kings. From that treasure Bard sent much gold to the Master of Lake-town; and he rewarded his followers and friends freely. To the Elvenking he gave the emeralds of Girion, such jewels as he most loved, which Dain had restored to him. To Bilbo he said: "This treasure is as much yours as it is mine; though old agreements cannot stand, since so many have a claim in its winning and defence. Yet even though you were willing to lay aside all your claim, I should wish that the words of Thorin, of which he repented, should not prove true: that we should give you little. I would reward you most richly of all."
"Very kind of you," said Bilbo. "But really it is a relief to me. How on earth should I have got all that treasure home without war and murder all along the way, I don't know. And I don't know what I should have done with it when I got home. I am sure it is better in your hands."
In the end he would only take two small chests, one filled with silver, and the other with gold, such as one strong pony could carry. "That will be quite as much as I can manage," said he.
...
"I beg of you," said Bilbo stammering and standing on one foot, "to accept this gift!" and he brought out a necklace of silver and pearls that Dain had given him at their parting.
"In what way have I earned such a gift, O hobbit?" said the king.
"Well, er, I thought, don't you know," said Bilbo rather confused, "that, er, some little return should be made for your, er, hospitality. I mean even a burglar has his feelings. I have drunk much of your wine and eaten much of your bread."
"I will take your gift, O Bilbo the Magnificent!" said the king gravely. "And I name you elf-friend and blessed. May your shadow never grow less (or stealing would be too easy)! Farewell!"

In addition Bilbo got one half of the treassure from the Trolls, which he an d Gandalf did recover on their journey home.

Respectfully
Findegil

Gorhilion · 03-01-2006, 09:31 PM

So have any of the dwarf Fathers gotten up again and hailed at the door for tea? And didn't Durin live for the longest? How many Dwarven Fathers were there?

Elu Ancalime · 03-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

How many Dwarven Fathers were there?

Durin for Longbeards
Firebeard Father
Broadbeam Father
Stiffbeard Father
Blacklock Father
Stonefoot Father(?)
Hagrid? I cant tremember the last two clearly. Anyway, the last four apart from Longbeard, Broadbeam, and Firebeard wernt entirly cannocal i think...
________
List of ford factories picture

Findegil · 03-03-2006, 07:58 PM

There were 6 members of the Haus of Dúrin and it is recorded that they were named thus because they were the father of that hous reborn. Thus the dwarven rebirth was not really digging your self out of the grave, but rebirth into your childrens children.
We do not know much abut the Durin's:
Dúrin I first Dwarf of all and founded Moria
Dúrin III aided The Elves in the war ofSauron against Eregion
Dúrin VI was killed by the Balrog of Moria in 1980 DZ
Dúrn VII & Last reestablished Moria as Dwarven Kingdom in the early fourth age

Respectfully
Findegil

Glaurung · 03-08-2006, 12:55 AM

If this isn't completely off-topic, I wonder what the Arkenstone really was? Was it just a beautiful jewel? And if it was "just a jewel", how come all the dwarves were so fond of it?

Raynor · 03-08-2006, 10:09 AM

I would say that the Arkenstone is the equivalent of the Silmarils for the dwarves; they call it the Heart of the Mountain. Furthermore, in HoME IV, The earliest Annal of Valinor, it is stated that the Gothic root arkns (in Old English Eorclan) means holy; and the same root Eorclan is used in the translation of the Silmarils in Old English: Eorclanstanas (even physically they are alike: crystals of diamonds - globe with a thousand faces). It could have even more importance to Thorin since he calls it the treasure of his house.

Elu Ancalime · 03-08-2006, 03:09 PM

Even though it has the prefix 'Holy', they never mentioned it being associated with Aule, but perhaps since the dwarves are secret with language and the origins of awakening and such, they held some beleif that the Arkenstone was a sign meant for Thror to govern Erebor, like the Mirromere, but tangible and less 'holy.'
________
Volcano Vaporizer

Glaurung · 03-12-2006, 10:14 AM

Thanks! That cleared my thoughts, at least a little...

02-27-2006, 10:51 PM	#1
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	The Arkenstone What happened to the Arkenstone after it was found? __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

02-28-2006, 01:13 AM	#2
A_Brandybuck Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 95	The Dwarves worked with the Arkenstone, so that the Stone became a very beautiful jewel. And it became a heirloom of the Dwarven-King of Durin's House until Smaug sacked Erebor. Thórin and fellows got the stone back from Smaug and it was buried with Thórin under the mountains. That was it. __________________ „I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

02-28-2006, 06:30 PM	#3
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	Hmmm. It seems kind of a waste of such a beautiful jewel, to be buried with a dead person. It should be passed on to the generations to come. At least thats what I think. __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

02-28-2006, 06:38 PM	#4
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	But this way it cannot be used against the dwarves as Bilbo used it to force an alliance. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

02-28-2006, 07:27 PM	#5
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	What happened to the rest of the treasure that Smaug hoarded after he was defeated. __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

02-28-2006, 11:01 PM	#7
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	Thanks for all the answers! __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

03-01-2006, 09:31 PM	#12
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	So have any of the dwarf Fathers gotten up again and hailed at the door for tea? And didn't Durin live for the longest? How many Dwarven Fathers were there? __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

03-03-2006, 07:58 PM	#14
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	There were 6 members of the Haus of Dúrin and it is recorded that they were named thus because they were the father of that hous reborn. Thus the dwarven rebirth was not really digging your self out of the grave, but rebirth into your childrens children. We do not know much abut the Durin's: Dúrin I first Dwarf of all and founded Moria Dúrin III aided The Elves in the war ofSauron against Eregion Dúrin VI was killed by the Balrog of Moria in 1980 DZ Dúrn VII & Last reestablished Moria as Dwarven Kingdom in the early fourth age Respectfully Findegil

03-08-2006, 12:55 AM	#15
Glaurung Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dancing in rain Posts: 16	If this isn't completely off-topic, I wonder what the Arkenstone really was? Was it just a beautiful jewel? And if it was "just a jewel", how come all the dwarves were so fond of it?

03-08-2006, 10:09 AM	#16
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	I would say that the Arkenstone is the equivalent of the Silmarils for the dwarves; they call it the Heart of the Mountain. Furthermore, in HoME IV, The earliest Annal of Valinor, it is stated that the Gothic root arkns (in Old English Eorclan) means holy; and the same root Eorclan is used in the translation of the Silmarils in Old English: Eorclanstanas (even physically they are alike: crystals of diamonds - globe with a thousand faces). It could have even more importance to Thorin since he calls it the treasure of his house.

03-08-2006, 03:09 PM	#17
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	Even though it has the prefix 'Holy', they never mentioned it being associated with Aule, but perhaps since the dwarves are secret with language and the origins of awakening and such, they held some beleif that the Arkenstone was a sign meant for Thror to govern Erebor, like the Mirromere, but tangible and less 'holy.' ________ Volcano Vaporizer Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:24 PM.

03-12-2006, 10:14 AM	#18
Glaurung Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dancing in rain Posts: 16	Thanks! That cleared my thoughts, at least a little...