Was Necromancer another name for Sauron?

[Belegheru]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 23</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
In the Hobbit the name Necromancer is mentioned. When Gandalf comes back from his secret missions he tells Bilbo, he and the other members of the white council defeated the evil sorcerer Necromancer. Did he mean Sauron. What does Necromancer mean anyway and in which language?

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[Fingolfin]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Was Necromancer another name for Sauron?

Yes:

Council of Elrond:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Some here will remember that many years ago I myself dared to pass the doors of the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, and secretly explored his ways, and found thus that our fears were true: he was none other than Sauron, our Enemy of old, at length taking shape and power again. Some, too, will remember also that Saruman dissuaded us from open deeds against him, and for long we watched him only. <hr></blockquote>

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[Drew2K1]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Was Necromancer another name for Sauron?

Necromancy is the art of black magic or sorcery. A Necromancer is somebody who practices black magic or sorcery I presume <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

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[LionPixie]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Yes

Necromancer is a common term, like warlock. The Hobbit, written before LOTR, may have more &quot;generalized&quot; terms such as Necromancer, but it implies Sauron by all accounts. Good question.

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[Imbear Nolwehin]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Guldur

Sauron was THE necromancer, as Fingolfin has quoted. The place-name of Sauron's abode at the time was the hill of dark sorcery.

Necromancy is a little more specific than mere sorcery, once into the realm of magics. Necromancy is power drawn through communion with the dead. This is important to understand, considering that Sauron was weakened at the time and his real power was in his dead servants - the Ulairi, who arose and prepared his temple anew in the Barad-Dur. Not very surprising or sensational, but very appropriate.

Imbëar

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[Lila Bramble]

A good question. I posted something like this. A Necromancer is a dark wizard most dealing with the dead. It is said the Necromancer is Sauron, but I dont' understand...isn't Sauron the Eye? How could he be a living, breathing, creature in the form of a wizard?

[Daniel Telcontar]

Sauron was a Maia, thus a spirit with changing physical shapes. In the Sil he often changes into e.g. a werewolf.
After Morgoth's (his master) defeat, he is first a fair being, like an elf. When this shape is destroyed, he becomes a big, black warrior. After that, he slowly regenerates under the camouflage as a necromancer, poisoning Mirkwood. Then he takes his final shape, when the White Council drives him away from Dol Guldor, as a great, lidless eye.

[the real findorfin]

necromancy is the art of raising the dead to talk with them. or at least, thats what I thought. As someone else said it is very appropriate, with the Nazgul and the barrow wraiths etc.

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

I think it's from Greek roots.

[Birdland]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"Necromancy - (from the Greek nekros, "dead", and manteia, "divination")

Necromancy is a special mode of divination (q. v.) by the evocation of the dead. Understood as nigromancy (niger, black), which is the Italian, Spanish and old French form, the term suggests "black" magic or "black" art, in which marvellous results are due to the agency of evil spirits,... The practice of necromancy supposes belief in the survival of the soul after death, the possession of a superior knowledge by the disembodied spirit, and the possibility of communication between the living and the dead."

There was a very famous 19th century necromancer, but we won't mention his name here, because Birdie believes in this stuff! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[gayare'dion]

i believe in magic. the bible even speaks of it. i think paul was given the power by god to blind a sorceror who became angry with them, but thats not even the big part in that story.

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

So how come Sauron didn't die when the council said they killed him?

[Imperica]

Sauron is a Maiar. They cannot die but only lose their physical forms.

[Lila Bramble]

My story indeed goes along a lot with the history of the Necromancer (not Saurron, if you read my fic you will see...well, actually it's revealed a little later) and he was not killed by the council. They merely kicked him out of his dwelling in Mirkwood. And if I am mistaken and they did kill him, the Necromancer has the ability to comr back into another form, in this case, the Eye.

[O'Boile]

Sauron was never in the form of an eye. He still had the same form as when he was the Necromancer (humanoid). The white council did not kill him, but drove him out. He was expecting this, and retreated to Mordor. Only in the movie is he an eye.

[Orogaerion]

Sauron was a necromancer not Necromancer
and he was a lidless eye in the books aswell
cuz he didnt have enough power to take real physical shape.

[Ravenna]

As stated in earlier posts, The Necromancer was discovered to be Saurobn and was driven out by the White Council.
Although the image of the lidless eye was used in the book, it was used as in a vision not a reality, at no point in the book is Sauron stated to be only and Eye. There is another thread concerning this particular point where proof is offered that Sauron did infact have physical shape during the War of the Ring.

[O'Boile]

Orogaerion, read the book more carefully. Sauron has phisical form in the book. Gollum mentions his nine fingers. Last time I checked, an eye didn't have fingers.

[Galorme]

Of course an eye can have 9 fingers. Look at these pictures (ones by me, one is by Endëormë and the other is by Alex (he is too crap to have a Quenya name) Endëormë's is the Good one, and Alex's is the Photo one:-


[img]www.matron.ath.cx/Sauron.JPG[/img]


Thats how i say Sauron looks and i'm sticking to it.

Seriously though i think that Sauron was called the Necromancer because of how many times he had 'died', and he always came back from the dead. I always thought that Necromancer meant "Master of the Dead", but Birdland proved me wrong there.

Edit: For some reason its not showing my pic, but you can see it at www.matron.ath.cx/Sauron.JPG

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Galorme ]

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Galorme ]

[Arie]

::nods::yep