Boromir: What would have happened if he didn't die? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Glirdan · 11-07-2005, 08:26 PM

Now, I know there's a whole topic on what would have happened if Gandalf hadn't fell (I really should know seeing as I participate in it

), but I was wondering what you guys think would have happened if Boromir hadn't died?

Go on and let your minds wander but let me start things off with a few speculations of my own.

First off, he probably would have gone to Gondor alone. No, he would not tag along with Aragorn and Co. to go searching for Merry and Pippin. He would rather go back to his home and help in the fight to come. Or would he? Would he go back to Gondor? Or would he feel a sense of duty to rescue and help the companions that he's travelled with and can call friends? I think the second option would be what would happen. I think he'd feel to guilty to leave his friends to go off and possibly endanger Middle-Earth, not purposely mind you. He'd also feel that since he found his King, he has to follow him. It's his duty to go where the King goes.

So, what do you think?

Thinlómien · 11-08-2005, 09:32 AM

Hmmmmmmm.... Well it depends what you mean. Do you mean that Boromir had survived, but the orcs had captured Merry and Pippin and then Boromir would have just walked away? I don't believe that he would have tolerated the orcs to take them.
If you just mean that the situation (Boromir+Merry+Pippin against the orcs) hadn't happened, then I suppose you wouldn't be asking would he have gone after the orcs...
So could you clear it up a bit?

Glirdan · 11-08-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Do you mean that Boromir had survived, but the orcs had captured Merry and Pippin and then Boromir would have just walked away?

Yes Thin, that is indeed what I mean. Sorry for the confusion.

Himilsillion · 11-09-2005, 09:17 PM

I think that Borromir would have followed Aragorn and company through out the TT but he would have gone down to Minas Tirith with Pippin and Gandalf so he could get there and help defend the white city before the forces of Mordor surrounded it. He also might have decided that he should go down and help command the Rohirrim with Eomer, Gamling, and Theoden. Either way he could have done good.

Thinlómien · 11-10-2005, 08:31 AM

He had such sense of honour that he wouldn't just have walked away. I wonder if he had even asked Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli for help before chasing the orcs. (Read the following before judging my point: )
The situation would just have been so different. There maybe wouldn't have been any chasing of the orcs; Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas (and Boromir) wouldn't have had to "waste" time in burying Boromir and such; they would have get to work much sooner than they actually did.

Glirdan · 11-10-2005, 02:18 PM

This is all, true, but we cannot forget that if he was not slain, Boromir would still be exhausted and need time to rest, so maybe they would have left a little earlier, but not by much to make a big difference in the story's plot. I think they still would have been about a day behind the orcs and the Riddermark would still have killed the orcs at Fangorn's eaves and so on and so forth.

Thinlómien · 11-11-2005, 05:40 AM

Yes, and they'd still have to pack up.

Well, I can't still imagine Boromir watching helplessly when orcs take Merry and Pippin away, if he wasn't seriously wounded.

alatar · 11-11-2005, 02:26 PM

I assume that we mean that Boromir repents after trying to take the Ring from Frodo. It would seem to me that he would really feel the need to redeem himself - probably why he sells himself in defense of the other hobbits.

So he could have done like he did in the Books (gone in search of Merry and Pippin), or disregarding Aragorn's command, gone with Aragorn and Sam in search of Frodo. If he chooses the first path and survives the Uruk encounter (assume that he is wounded), then he would be a bit slower but a bit hotter in regards to the orcs that took the two hobbits. Possibly he then replaces Aragorn as one of the Three Hunters as Aragorn sees that it's been divinely decreed that Boromir look after the two so that Aragorn can go in pursuit of Sam and Frodo.

Whether Boromir is wounded or not, he still could go after Merry and Pippin or be sent by Aragorn to warn Minas Tirith that the wraiths are now on wings and will attack Gondor soon. By the time Boromir gets to Minas Tirith, possibly Aragorn would have shown himself to Sauron via the Palantir, and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields would ensue. Gandalf and Pippin might be a little more welcome in Denethor's hall, and Pippin still may serve the Steward in payment of Boromir's help (though not death). Boromir and Faramir could go to the bridge to hold off the attack, yet be pushed back as this time Sauron's not just trying to get his Nine across. Boromir could then redeem himself by dying so that his brother is able to retreat.

Denethor could then freak out, blame everything on Gandalf and we could continue on as the books.

Just some thoughts.

Boromir88 · 11-11-2005, 05:28 PM

Tough choice. Throughout the entire journey we hear Boromir constantly talking about going back to the White City. That's really why he went with the Fellowship, to go back to Minas Tirith and Aragorn was to come with him. Though these plans change dramatically. But, up until his death Boromir makes it pretty clear that he's going to Minas Tirith.

Now, if he hadn't died, and Merry and Pippin were captured (I'd have to assume he's wounded and ends up not being fatal), his plans may have changed a bit.

What we see with Boromir is the classic Anglo-Saxon Laws of Compensation. That is if you want to be forgiven, and "compensate" for the "bad" you have caused.

1) Commit a sin- Trying to take the Ring from Frodo

2) Be sorry, and ask for Forgiveness- "I am sorry. I have paid, forgive me."~Departure of Boromir.

3) Where the Compensation comes in, according to Anglo-Saxon law, you would either have to pay money, or sacrifice your life (hence compensate)- Boromir doesn't have any money, so he sacrifices himself to try to save Merry and Pippin.

4) Finally the Holy man must declare you forgiven- Both Aragorn and Gandalf can be seen as "representations of holiness" and they both declared Boromir "forgiven/saved"

So, I guess where I'm getting to is if Boromir wants compensated for his crimes, he would probably feel obligated to go after Merry and Pippin. Once this is done though, I doubt he would go much farther. He's needed in his city and his plan from the beginning was to go to Minas Tirith whether people would go with him or not.

11-07-2005, 08:26 PM	#1
Glirdan Energetic Essence Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew Posts: 3,285	Boromir: What would have happened if he didn't die? Now, I know there's a whole topic on what would have happened if Gandalf hadn't fell (I really should know seeing as I participate in it ), but I was wondering what you guys think would have happened if Boromir hadn't died? Go on and let your minds wander but let me start things off with a few speculations of my own. First off, he probably would have gone to Gondor alone. No, he would not tag along with Aragorn and Co. to go searching for Merry and Pippin. He would rather go back to his home and help in the fight to come. Or would he? Would he go back to Gondor? Or would he feel a sense of duty to rescue and help the companions that he's travelled with and can call friends? I think the second option would be what would happen. I think he'd feel to guilty to leave his friends to go off and possibly endanger Middle-Earth, not purposely mind you. He'd also feel that since he found his King, he has to follow him. It's his duty to go where the King goes. So, what do you think? __________________ *I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!* Fenris Wolf

11-08-2005, 09:32 AM	#2
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Hmmmmmmm.... Well it depends what you mean. Do you mean that Boromir had survived, but the orcs had captured Merry and Pippin and then Boromir would have just walked away? I don't believe that he would have tolerated the orcs to take them. If you just mean that the situation (Boromir+Merry+Pippin against the orcs) hadn't happened, then I suppose you wouldn't be asking would he have gone after the orcs... So could you clear it up a bit? __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

11-09-2005, 09:17 PM	#4
Himilsillion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In Sweet Home Chicago Posts: 30	I think that Borromir would have followed Aragorn and company through out the TT but he would have gone down to Minas Tirith with Pippin and Gandalf so he could get there and help defend the white city before the forces of Mordor surrounded it. He also might have decided that he should go down and help command the Rohirrim with Eomer, Gamling, and Theoden. Either way he could have done good. __________________ Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes; it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Jake: Hit it! Last edited by Himilsillion; 11-10-2005 at 04:43 PM.

11-10-2005, 08:31 AM	#5
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	He had such sense of honour that he wouldn't just have walked away. I wonder if he had even asked Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli for help before chasing the orcs. (Read the following before judging my point: ) The situation would just have been so different. There maybe wouldn't have been any chasing of the orcs; Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas (and Boromir) wouldn't have had to "waste" time in burying Boromir and such; they would have get to work much sooner than they actually did. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

11-10-2005, 02:18 PM	#6
Glirdan Energetic Essence Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew Posts: 3,285	This is all, true, but we cannot forget that if he was not slain, Boromir would still be exhausted and need time to rest, so maybe they would have left a little earlier, but not by much to make a big difference in the story's plot. I think they still would have been about a day behind the orcs and the Riddermark would still have killed the orcs at Fangorn's eaves and so on and so forth. __________________ *I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!* Fenris Wolf

11-11-2005, 05:40 AM	#7
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Yes, and they'd still have to pack up. Well, I can't still imagine Boromir watching helplessly when orcs take Merry and Pippin away, if he wasn't seriously wounded. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

11-11-2005, 02:26 PM	#8
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I assume that we mean that Boromir repents after trying to take the Ring from Frodo. It would seem to me that he would really feel the need to redeem himself - probably why he sells himself in defense of the other hobbits. So he could have done like he did in the Books (gone in search of Merry and Pippin), or disregarding Aragorn's command, gone with Aragorn and Sam in search of Frodo. If he chooses the first path and survives the Uruk encounter (assume that he is wounded), then he would be a bit slower but a bit hotter in regards to the orcs that took the two hobbits. Possibly he then replaces Aragorn as one of the Three Hunters as Aragorn sees that it's been divinely decreed that Boromir look after the two so that Aragorn can go in pursuit of Sam and Frodo. Whether Boromir is wounded or not, he still could go after Merry and Pippin or be sent by Aragorn to warn Minas Tirith that the wraiths are now on wings and will attack Gondor soon. By the time Boromir gets to Minas Tirith, possibly Aragorn would have shown himself to Sauron via the Palantir, and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields would ensue. Gandalf and Pippin might be a little more welcome in Denethor's hall, and Pippin still may serve the Steward in payment of Boromir's help (though not death). Boromir and Faramir could go to the bridge to hold off the attack, yet be pushed back as this time Sauron's not just trying to get his Nine across. Boromir could then redeem himself by dying so that his brother is able to retreat. Denethor could then freak out, blame everything on Gandalf and we could continue on as the books. Just some thoughts. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

11-11-2005, 05:28 PM	#9
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,519	Tough choice. Throughout the entire journey we hear Boromir constantly talking about going back to the White City. That's really why he went with the Fellowship, to go back to Minas Tirith and Aragorn was to come with him. Though these plans change dramatically. But, up until his death Boromir makes it pretty clear that he's going to Minas Tirith. Now, if he hadn't died, and Merry and Pippin were captured (I'd have to assume he's wounded and ends up not being fatal), his plans may have changed a bit. What we see with Boromir is the classic Anglo-Saxon Laws of Compensation. That is if you want to be forgiven, and "compensate" for the "bad" you have caused. 1) Commit a sin- Trying to take the Ring from Frodo 2) Be sorry, and ask for Forgiveness- "I am sorry. I have paid, forgive me."~Departure of Boromir. 3) Where the Compensation comes in, according to Anglo-Saxon law, you would either have to pay money, or sacrifice your life (hence compensate)- Boromir doesn't have any money, so he sacrifices himself to try to save Merry and Pippin. 4) Finally the Holy man must declare you forgiven- Both Aragorn and Gandalf can be seen as "representations of holiness" and they both declared Boromir "forgiven/saved" So, I guess where I'm getting to is if Boromir wants compensated for his crimes, he would probably feel obligated to go after Merry and Pippin. Once this is done though, I doubt he would go much farther. He's needed in his city and his plan from the beginning was to go to Minas Tirith whether people would go with him or not. __________________ Fenris Penguin