Gandalf and Gollum? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rose Cotton · 06-23-2002, 10:55 PM

Gandalf told Frodo about pity and mercy and that Gollum had a part to play before the end. And yet when Gandalf hears that Frodo has taken up with Gollum he is a bit troubled.

Let's say that by some remote chance Gandalf was with Frodo and Sam during the Taming of Smeogol.

What would he have done?

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ]

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-24-2002, 08:24 AM

He might have done what Frodo did.

Maédhros · 06-24-2002, 01:40 PM

Probably had use Gollum as a guide too. Remember that Gandalf had never gone east, like Saruman, Alatar or Pallando. He always had stayed west.
Gandalf would not have killed Gollum either.

Beren87 · 06-24-2002, 01:41 PM

He would have thrown Gollum out of the "gruop", He's Gandalf, he doesn't need a guide to Mt. Doom, he was suppoosed to be the guide if the fellowship hadn't seperated.

Plus, Gollum probably wouldn't have strayed so close if Gandalf was around. After all, he didn't in Moria.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-24-2002, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Gandalf had never gone east, like Saruman, Alatar or Pallando

Who are Alatar and Pallando?

Salix · 06-24-2002, 04:46 PM

Alatar and Pallando are the Blue wizards who went into the east and were never talked about again i think.
I don't know what Gandalf would have done. He wouldn't have killed Gollum, but i'm not sure whether he would have let Gollum guide.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 06-24-2002, 05:50 PM

When Gandalf told Frodo those things I do believe that he meant them. He is a true character, and even if he doesn't trust Gollum he still honors his life. He knows that the ring put him through a lot.

Also, if Gandalf had been with them he probably would've done the same thing. I can see how he would be a little upset when hearing that Frodo and Sam had taken up with Gollum, but I am sure that if Gandalf was faced with Gollum he too would've had pity on him. After all, he could've killed Saruman, but he chose not to.

Tarthang · 06-24-2002, 07:25 PM

I think Gandalf would have used gollum the same way as Frodo. But I believe he would have been more on gaurd against treachery from Gollum.

Kuruharan · 06-24-2002, 08:50 PM

I think that Gandalf probably did have better knowledge of the various ways into Mordor than most. That said, he probably would have listened to all that Gollum had to say, and tried to gain as much information about the way as possible. I don't think that Gandalf would have let Gollum be the guide, but he would not have killed him. Obviously, it would not have been safe to turn Gollum loose, so Gandalf probably would have just kept him.

Kalimac · 06-24-2002, 09:08 PM

One thing to remember is that Gandalf merely says that Gollum has "a part to play" before the end - Gandalf himself is fuzzy on the details and does not necessarily know if Gollum's part will be to be the final factor in destroying the Ring or delivering it up to Sauron. He just doesn't know what sort of part exactly, any more than the rest of the Fellowship does.

As for being anxious when hearing that Frodo and Gollum have met - well, like before, he doesn't know if this is ultimately going to lead to salvation or disaster; all he knows is that it's going to lead to SOMETHING, which, knowing Gollum, will probably be an unpleasant process whatever the end result. Gandalf probably feels at that point much like a father whose son is, say, traveling on his own for the first time; he knows that it's what the boy prefers to do, knows it's time for it to happen, but at the same time can't help being (very rightly) anxious over what might happen to him, after all, Gollum is the ultimate stranger met while traveling, and he'd be anxious that his "son" wasn't being careful enough.

As for how he would have treated Gollum - probably much the same as Frodo, but with a far more cowing effect; Gandalf can produce spells and effects that would probably knock the fear of Eru into Gollum for a good while. This might not be altogether a good thing, though, since it might have led to Gollum running away from them very early, and before he had guided them through the Emyn Muil. It's hard to see him betraying the company to Shelob in the hopes of getting the Ring, though - he would never want to come to grips with Gandalf over the Ring if Frodo were stung by Shelob, and also there was far too much risk that Gandalf would have heard of Torech Ungol and refused to let them go near the place, thus forcing Gollum to think of another plan. Just my 2.5 cents.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-24-2002, 09:17 PM

He wouldn't have killed him, he would have captured him and taken him prisoner of something like that.

Kuruharan · 06-24-2002, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Gandalf can produce spells and effects that would probably knock the fear of Eru into Gollum for a good while.

Actually, that's exactly what Gandalf eventually did the only time that he met Gollum.

If Gandalf had still been with Frodo, that experience might have caused Gollum to be more cautious to avoid encountering that nassty wizard again.

Quote:

there was far too much risk that Gandalf would have heard of Torech Ungol and refused to let them go near the place, thus forcing Gollum to think of another plan.

That is very true. But did Gollum know of another way in? We wondersss, my precioussss, yes, we wondersss...

06-23-2002, 10:55 PM	#1
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Gandalf and Gollum? Gandalf told Frodo about pity and mercy and that Gollum had a part to play before the end. And yet when Gandalf hears that Frodo has taken up with Gollum he is a bit troubled. Let's say that by some remote chance Gandalf was with Frodo and Sam during the Taming of Smeogol. What would he have done? [ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ] __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

06-24-2002, 08:24 AM	#2
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	He might have done what Frodo did. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-24-2002, 01:40 PM	#3
Maédhros The Kinslayer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 658	Probably had use Gollum as a guide too. Remember that Gandalf had never gone east, like Saruman, Alatar or Pallando. He always had stayed west. Gandalf would not have killed Gollum either. __________________ "Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."

06-24-2002, 04:46 PM	#6
Salix Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Riverbank of the Anduin Posts: 284	Alatar and Pallando are the Blue wizards who went into the east and were never talked about again i think. I don't know what Gandalf would have done. He wouldn't have killed Gollum, but i'm not sure whether he would have let Gollum guide. __________________ Do not trifle with Dragons, as you are small, and crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

06-24-2002, 05:50 PM	#7
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	When Gandalf told Frodo those things I do believe that he meant them. He is a true character, and even if he doesn't trust Gollum he still honors his life. He knows that the ring put him through a lot. Also, if Gandalf had been with them he probably would've done the same thing. I can see how he would be a little upset when hearing that Frodo and Sam had taken up with Gollum, but I am sure that if Gandalf was faced with Gollum he too would've had pity on him. After all, he could've killed Saruman, but he chose not to. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

06-24-2002, 01:41 PM	#4
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	He would have thrown Gollum out of the "gruop", He's Gandalf, he doesn't need a guide to Mt. Doom, he was suppoosed to be the guide if the fellowship hadn't seperated. Plus, Gollum probably wouldn't have strayed so close if Gandalf was around. After all, he didn't in Moria.

06-24-2002, 07:25 PM	#8
Tarthang Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Paths of the Dead Posts: 108	I think Gandalf would have used gollum the same way as Frodo. But I believe he would have been more on gaurd against treachery from Gollum.

06-24-2002, 08:50 PM	#9
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	I think that Gandalf probably did have better knowledge of the various ways into Mordor than most. That said, he probably would have listened to all that Gollum had to say, and tried to gain as much information about the way as possible. I don't think that Gandalf would have let Gollum be the guide, but he would not have killed him. Obviously, it would not have been safe to turn Gollum loose, so Gandalf probably would have just kept him. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

06-24-2002, 09:08 PM	#10
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	One thing to remember is that Gandalf merely says that Gollum has "a part to play" before the end - Gandalf himself is fuzzy on the details and does not necessarily know if Gollum's part will be to be the final factor in destroying the Ring or delivering it up to Sauron. He just doesn't know what sort of part exactly, any more than the rest of the Fellowship does. As for being anxious when hearing that Frodo and Gollum have met - well, like before, he doesn't know if this is ultimately going to lead to salvation or disaster; all he knows is that it's going to lead to SOMETHING, which, knowing Gollum, will probably be an unpleasant process whatever the end result. Gandalf probably feels at that point much like a father whose son is, say, traveling on his own for the first time; he knows that it's what the boy prefers to do, knows it's time for it to happen, but at the same time can't help being (very rightly) anxious over what might happen to him, after all, Gollum is the ultimate stranger met while traveling, and he'd be anxious that his "son" wasn't being careful enough. As for how he would have treated Gollum - probably much the same as Frodo, but with a far more cowing effect; Gandalf can produce spells and effects that would probably knock the fear of Eru into Gollum for a good while. This might not be altogether a good thing, though, since it might have led to Gollum running away from them very early, and before he had guided them through the Emyn Muil. It's hard to see him betraying the company to Shelob in the hopes of getting the Ring, though - he would never want to come to grips with Gandalf over the Ring if Frodo were stung by Shelob, and also there was far too much risk that Gandalf would have heard of Torech Ungol and refused to let them go near the place, thus forcing Gollum to think of another plan. Just my 2.5 cents. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

06-24-2002, 09:17 PM	#11
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	He wouldn't have killed him, he would have captured him and taken him prisoner of something like that. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.