Quenya Poetry Competition 10/05 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the guy who be short · 10-02-2005, 04:37 AM

A hearty welcome to the first Quenya Poetry competition on the Downs!

First of all, here’s the Agenda for the following few days:

Poetry submitting:
From today to the 10th of October, poems will be submitted.

Discussion:
After that, there will be an unspecified amount of time dedicated to the discussion and analysing of the poems. At most, this could last up to the beginning of the next competition.

Voting:
There is no particular timeframe for votes to come in. However, it would be advisable to analyse all the poems before submitting a vote. Most votes result in a best poet / best poem. The best poet gets to host the next poetry contest in December, if all goes well.

Poets:
Poets will need to note the following:

Submitting Poetry:
• Poems will be accepted until the 10th of October, inclusive.
• There is, at current, no limit to the number of poems that will be accepted from each individual.
• Please post each new poem in a new post. This means that poems can afterwards be referred to by post number.
• It is compulsory to provide an English translation of the poem with it. This translation may be as literal or liberal as you will.
• It is optional, but very helpful for fluency, to in some way highlight stressed syllables in each word.
• Please do not provide commentaries on your poems here.

Discussion:
Does what it says on the tin. Topics to discuss can include: rhyme schemes, metres, flow, aspiration / sibilance / other poetic techniques, content, quality of Quenya and anything else. Poets should leave commentaries on their own work until the discussion period. Be flattering, be harsh, be a critic. There are likely to be many grammatical errors at this point – if you spot any, please notify the person by PM.

Voting:
All poets may vote for their favourite poem once.
You may not vote for yourself.

Other Quenya Students:
This applies to everybody who is learning Quenya, but not submitting poems. This should be all the Quenya Students:
Kath
TGWBS
dancing spawn of ungoliant
Lhunardawen
Encaitare
Kitanna
Orominuialwen
Arwen Imladris
Esgallhugwen
CaptainofDespair
durelin
Joy
Shelob
Alcarillo
Nilpaurion Felagund
Vanwalossien
AbercrombieofRohan

In short, you may take part in discussion and are allowed a vote each.

Non Quenya Students:

You are encouraged to take part in discussion and comment on the poems. However, you will not be allowed to vote.

Winning the Competition:
There will be two categories of winner, the Best Poet and the Best Poem. If everybody only supplies one poem, these will overlap. There is likely to be overlap anyway, but it will be interesting noting any differences in later contests, when more people should enter poems.
When everybody has voted, I shall tally up the votes and announce the (potentially) two winners. The Best Poet hosts the next contest.

That’s it. Sorry for such long rules, that’s my attempt to bring some sort of order to this. In any case, we can now get down to actually enjoying the poems.

the guy who be short · 10-02-2005, 10:43 AM

Nyáre Noldoron

Mine – I Orme Feanáro

Feanáro Finwion! A! Feanáro!
Antaura mal úsaila Noldo.
Moringotto Cotumo mance Finwe,
I Silmarilli vanwe!

Minya Noldoron, Finwe firne,
Aha úvalin Feanáro turne.
Feanáro Noldor tultane
Ar Tirion ortane!

“Noldolie lá lenduva!
Noldolie vanyuva
Valimar, nóre Manweo
nosse Moringotto nehtar Alduo”

Feanáro Úalmárea
Quente Vére úmea
Ar otso yondorya
Quente Vérerya

Noldor oanter Tirion
I nelde Finwion
Ar ilye nossi
Neri ar nissi.

Manwe taura núro mentane
“Noldor lantea nu huine.
Mal tulnelle mirimar,
Ar vanyuvalle mirimar.

Hequa Feanáro!
Úsaila Noldo!
I Valar hehteas
Ar Valinor autuvas.”

“Á nyare Manwe Súlimo,
Tararan Ardo:
I Noldor lá lenduvar ve Manwe,
I hare sé nyérë

Máhanaxar linduva Feanáro
Ná! Elle hilyuvar Feanáro”
Lander.
Oanter.

The History of the Gnomes

One - The Wrath of Feanor

Feanor son of Finwe! O! Feanor!
Greatest yet unwise Noldo.
Morgoth the Enemy slew Finwe
Lost the Silmarils!

First of the Noldor, Finwe fell,
Rage took over unhappy Feanor.
Feanor summoned the Noldor
And Tirion rose up!

“The people of the Noldor will not linger!
The Noldor shall leave
Valimar, the Country of Manwe
Kin of Morgoth slayer of the Trees”

Feanor the Unblessed
Spoke an evil Oath
And his seven sons
Spoke his Oath

The Noldor left Tirion
The three sons of Finwe
And all the Houses,
Men and women.

Mighty Manwe sent a messenger
“The Noldor are falling under shadow.
But freely ye came,
And freely shall ye depart.

Except for Feanor!
Unwise Noldo!
The Valar forsake him
And he shall leave Valinor.”

“Tell Manwe Súlimo,
High King of Arda:
The Noldor will not tarry like Manwe
Who sits in grief.

The Ring of Doom shall sing of Feanor,
Yea! You shall follow Feanor!”
He laughed.
He left.

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 10-03-2005, 08:10 AM

Vanyë Eldar

Vanyë Eldar elenhíni
vantaner nu hallë aldar
lalaner ve sírë, lindaner ve aiwe

Mal síri ahyaner tier ar aiwi willer oar

Ai! Mavoine! Vanwa ná alassë
Man póla cira te na mar
Vanyë Eldar ëarhíni

Fair Elves

Fair Elves, children of the star
walked under tall trees
laughed like a river, sung like a bird

But rivers changed courses and birds flew away

Alas! Great longing! Lost is joy
Who can sail them home
Fair Elves, children of the sea

Encaitare · 10-08-2005, 04:44 PM

NOTE: This is a general translation of a song I wrote in English, so it has a pattern of two verses and a refrain. Stress is not noted because in Quenya, there is no rhyme scheme or meter. Hopefully it's mostly accurate -- if anyone sees any errors, please point them out to me!

I Nairë Ciryaquenion

Lempë löar avánier mal séyëa lil andavë
Ar yando avánielyë
Mal i véri melmiva löar illumë lil tulca

Eleni quilderi sílar ëarinna
Vi míri ya hehtanelyë
Ar i falmar ya apparëar cirya nar peulya appiën

Ëar ná ringa ar morna nu
I laurë palmiva
Ar hehtuvanyë ilya mal nyérë
Ëar, ar elyë an illumë

Mai quettin lingwë-lindë, hlaruvalyë yellinya?
Mí rangwer aneressëar mardealyë
Nat núro-vendë mí parder arnar ëariva

Cenin antalya mí lango-nís
Tulyealyën illumë avaháya
Ar nat er vanwa, meldanyë, ú-firin

Ëar ná ringa ar morna nu
I laurë palmiva
Ar hehtuvanyë ilya mal nyérë
Ëar, ar elyë an illumë

Andavë aránienyë, ciryaquen ar raumoroquen
Lirië asácienyël earinna úvoronda
Ná I nissë milca, ar fëayna ná vanwa

Melnenyel acca olë ar avaleryanelyes
Ar i Anar calëa calimavë or i nén síra
Mal i ëar ne avaleryanel ar ëas mi inyë
Ar ilyë, meldanyë ëa illumë yando mi inyë

Ëar ná ringa ar morna nu
I laurë palmiva
Ar hehtuvanyë ilya mal nyérë
Ëar, ar elyë an illumë

~*~*~*~*~

NOTE 2: I have taken a few small liberties here, changing the English from the literal Quenya to make it flow more smoothly (ie: more long --> longer), and because not all the words I wanted are attested. Significant changes have the literal translated word(s) in brackets, ie: kiss [touch]

The Sailor’s Lament

Five years have gone but it seems much longer
And you have vanished too
But the bonds of love grow ever stronger

Silent stars shimmer upon the sea
Like the diamonds you forsook
And the waves that kiss [touch] the hull [ship] are your lips kissing [touching] me

The sea is cold and dark below
The surface's golden shine
And I will forget all but the desolate,
The ocean, and you for all of time

If I speak in whale-song will you answer my calls?
In the loneliest fathoms you're dwelling
You're a lady-in-waiting in the ocean's parlor halls

I see your face in that of my figurehead [prow-woman]
You lead me far and ever away
And you're only lost, my darling, never dead

The sea is cold and dark below
The surface's golden shine
And I will forget all but the desolate,
The ocean, and you for all of time

Long have I wandered, a stormriding sailor
Singing I've sought you on the treacherous sea
She is a jealous [greedy] mistress, and I am a failure [my soul is lost]

I loved you too well and she took you away from me
And the sun shines brightly over the water today
But 'twas the sea who took you and she lives in me
And you, my beloved, live ever too in me

The sea is cold and dark below
The surface's golden shine
And I will forget all but the desolate,
The ocean, and you for all of time

the guy who be short · 10-25-2005, 11:05 AM

Righto. We're back!

Stop looking at me like that... I remembered the deadline. I just ignored it - spawn had to go somewhere, and seeing as she represents a third of the poets, I didn't think it prudent to start any discussion without her. Additionally, I thought it would give time for more poems to come in, but unfortunately this hasn't happened.

So we reach discussion. Remember, everybody can participate. Even non students.

So then, a little explanation and a few facts about my poem.

Firstly, the title, which can be interpreted to mean "The History of the Gnomes" was once the title of the Silmarillion. As can be guessed, I wanted to render some of the Silm into Quenya poem form, as it was obviously meant to be.

There were a few problems with this. The Silm is very big, and Quenya vocab very small. I originally planned to call this first part of The History "Noldolante" (Fall of the Noldor) to mirror Maglor's song lamenting the fall of the Noldor. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time (or put in enough effort, interpret this as you will) to get to Alqualonde.

As the deadline loomed, I had to wrap the poem up very quickly. I think this makes the last stanzas very weak - they were rushed.

Obviously, I followed a rhyme scheme, but I did become a little sloppier afterthe first few stanzas. There are various lines I'm unhappy with, but overall, with a little sprucing up, I think it works.

Alcarillo · 10-27-2005, 08:52 PM

Yes, I did say I was writing a poem, but when school started way back in September, it was only halfway finished, and very long (seventy lines!

I've bitten off more than I can chew). I admit that I forgot about it for some time, and it was too long to get finished in the deadline rush. I'm planning on getting the poem in the next contest.

Great poems, everyone. I see that TGWBS has labelled his poem as Part One. A good way to turn a long poem into a series of shorter ones.

Enca has done an excellent job translating an English text, and works around some tricky wordings in a way that still keeps the meaning of the original words.

And dancing spawn's poem is concise and pleasant, and expresses well the melancholy elves always seem to get eventually.

Anguirel · 10-28-2005, 11:46 AM

Actually, tgwbs, I take the opposite view of your poem from you. To me the later and middle sections seem stronger and more moving than the early part, as they get increasingly bound up in powerful, iron concision. Perhaps this is because I have no Quenya, and so, while I can appreciate the beauty of the words, the subtleties of constructions are lost on me, leaving me to lean on the English. And in English, verses like this:

Feanor son of Finwe! O! Feanor!
Greatest yet unwise Noldo.
Morgoth the Enemy slew Finwe
Lost the Silmarils!

seem a bit, well, naff, in comparison with:

The Ring of Doom shall sing of Feanor,
Yea! You shall follow Feanor!”
He laughed.
He left.

with all its hard-hitting doom-laden syllables. But the verse that stood out most for me in original and translation was:

Feanáro Úalmárea
Quente Vére úmea
Ar otso yondorya
Quente Vérerya

Feanor the Unblessed
Spoke an evil Oath
And his seven sons
Spoke his Oath

It has something...really bardic about it, with a capacity to bring on...what, for want of a better term, I shall label the Blood-Tingling effect. It completely transcends my ignorance of the grammar. I think an Inuit seal-hunter without Quenya or English would tremble in awe at this one. Unless a seal happened to pass by at an inopportune moment and distract his attention.

More on the other two when I've read them properly. Can we expect any more poems?

Thinlómien · 10-29-2005, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Can we expect any more poems?

I suppose the time for submitting poems for this competition is over.

I loved all the poems; you're all very gifted writers. (I'll return to do some better commentation when I have time and I can concentrate more.)

10-02-2005, 04:37 AM	#1
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Quenya Poetry Competition 10/05 A hearty welcome to the first Quenya Poetry competition on the Downs! First of all, here’s the Agenda for the following few days: Poetry submitting: From today to the 10th of October, poems will be submitted. Discussion: After that, there will be an unspecified amount of time dedicated to the discussion and analysing of the poems. At most, this could last up to the beginning of the next competition. Voting: There is no particular timeframe for votes to come in. However, it would be advisable to analyse all the poems before submitting a vote. Most votes result in a best poet / best poem. The best poet gets to host the next poetry contest in December, if all goes well. Poets: Poets will need to note the following: Submitting Poetry: • Poems will be accepted until the 10th of October, inclusive. • There is, at current, no limit to the number of poems that will be accepted from each individual. • Please post each new poem in a new post. This means that poems can afterwards be referred to by post number. • It is compulsory to provide an English translation of the poem with it. This translation may be as literal or liberal as you will. • It is optional, but very helpful for fluency, to in some way highlight stressed syllables in each word. • Please do not provide commentaries on your poems here. Discussion: Does what it says on the tin. Topics to discuss can include: rhyme schemes, metres, flow, aspiration / sibilance / other poetic techniques, content, quality of Quenya and anything else. Poets should leave commentaries on their own work until the discussion period. Be flattering, be harsh, be a critic. There are likely to be many grammatical errors at this point – if you spot any, please notify the person by PM. Voting: All poets may vote for their favourite poem once. You may not vote for yourself. Other Quenya Students: This applies to everybody who is learning Quenya, but not submitting poems. This should be all the Quenya Students: Kath TGWBS dancing spawn of ungoliant Lhunardawen Encaitare Kitanna Orominuialwen Arwen Imladris Esgallhugwen CaptainofDespair durelin Joy Shelob Alcarillo Nilpaurion Felagund Vanwalossien AbercrombieofRohan In short, you may take part in discussion and are allowed a vote each. Non Quenya Students: You are encouraged to take part in discussion and comment on the poems. However, you will not be allowed to vote. Winning the Competition: There will be two categories of winner, the Best Poet and the Best Poem. If everybody only supplies one poem, these will overlap. There is likely to be overlap anyway, but it will be interesting noting any differences in later contests, when more people should enter poems. When everybody has voted, I shall tally up the votes and announce the (potentially) two winners. The Best Poet hosts the next contest. That’s it. Sorry for such long rules, that’s my attempt to bring some sort of order to this. In any case, we can now get down to actually enjoying the poems. Last edited by the guy who be short; 10-02-2005 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Forgot vanwa and Nilp

10-02-2005, 10:43 AM	#2
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Nyáre Noldoron Nyáre Noldoron Mine – I Orme Feanáro Feanáro Finwion! A! Feanáro! Antaura mal úsaila Noldo. Moringotto Cotumo mance Finwe, I Silmarilli vanwe! Minya Noldoron, Finwe firne, Aha úvalin Feanáro turne. Feanáro Noldor tultane Ar Tirion ortane! “Noldolie lá lenduva! Noldolie vanyuva Valimar, nóre Manweo nosse Moringotto nehtar Alduo” Feanáro Úalmárea Quente Vére úmea Ar otso yondorya Quente Vérerya Noldor oanter Tirion I nelde Finwion Ar ilye nossi Neri ar nissi. Manwe taura núro mentane “Noldor lantea nu huine. Mal tulnelle mirimar, Ar vanyuvalle mirimar. Hequa Feanáro! Úsaila Noldo! I Valar hehteas Ar Valinor autuvas.” “Á nyare Manwe Súlimo, Tararan Ardo: I Noldor lá lenduvar ve Manwe, I hare sé nyérë Máhanaxar linduva Feanáro Ná! Elle hilyuvar Feanáro” Lander. Oanter. The History of the Gnomes One - The Wrath of Feanor Feanor son of Finwe! O! Feanor! Greatest yet unwise Noldo. Morgoth the Enemy slew Finwe Lost the Silmarils! First of the Noldor, Finwe fell, Rage took over unhappy Feanor. Feanor summoned the Noldor And Tirion rose up! “The people of the Noldor will not linger! The Noldor shall leave Valimar, the Country of Manwe Kin of Morgoth slayer of the Trees” Feanor the Unblessed Spoke an evil Oath And his seven sons Spoke his Oath The Noldor left Tirion The three sons of Finwe And all the Houses, Men and women. Mighty Manwe sent a messenger “The Noldor are falling under shadow. But freely ye came, And freely shall ye depart. Except for Feanor! Unwise Noldo! The Valar forsake him And he shall leave Valinor.” “Tell Manwe Súlimo, High King of Arda: The Noldor will not tarry like Manwe Who sits in grief. The Ring of Doom shall sing of Feanor, Yea! You shall follow Feanor!” He laughed. He left.

10-03-2005, 08:10 AM	#3
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	Vanyë Eldar Vanyë Eldar elenhíni vantaner nu hallë aldar lalaner ve sírë, lindaner ve aiwe Mal síri ahyaner tier ar aiwi willer oar Ai! Mavoine! Vanwa ná alassë Man póla cira te na mar Vanyë Eldar ëarhíni Fair Elves Fair Elves, children of the star walked under tall trees laughed like a river, sung like a bird But rivers changed courses and birds flew away Alas! Great longing! Lost is joy Who can sail them home Fair Elves, children of the sea __________________ Fenris Wolf Last edited by dancing spawn of ungoliant; 10-03-2005 at 08:14 AM.

10-08-2005, 04:44 PM	#4
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	I Nairë Ciryaquenion NOTE: This is a general translation of a song I wrote in English, so it has a pattern of two verses and a refrain. Stress is not noted because in Quenya, there is no rhyme scheme or meter. Hopefully it's mostly accurate -- if anyone sees any errors, please point them out to me! I Nairë Ciryaquenion Lempë löar avánier mal séyëa lil andavë Ar yando avánielyë Mal i véri melmiva löar illumë lil tulca Eleni quilderi sílar ëarinna Vi míri ya hehtanelyë Ar i falmar ya apparëar cirya nar peulya appiën Ëar ná ringa ar morna nu I laurë palmiva Ar hehtuvanyë ilya mal nyérë Ëar, ar elyë an illumë Mai quettin lingwë-lindë, hlaruvalyë yellinya? Mí rangwer aneressëar mardealyë Nat núro-vendë mí parder arnar ëariva Cenin antalya mí lango-nís Tulyealyën illumë avaháya Ar nat er vanwa, meldanyë, ú-firin Ëar ná ringa ar morna nu I laurë palmiva Ar hehtuvanyë ilya mal nyérë Ëar, ar elyë an illumë Andavë aránienyë, ciryaquen ar raumoroquen Lirië asácienyël earinna úvoronda Ná I nissë milca, ar fëayna ná vanwa Melnenyel acca olë ar avaleryanelyes Ar i Anar calëa calimavë or i nén síra Mal i ëar ne avaleryanel ar ëas mi inyë Ar ilyë, meldanyë ëa illumë yando mi inyë Ëar ná ringa ar morna nu I laurë palmiva Ar hehtuvanyë ilya mal nyérë Ëar, ar elyë an illumë ~~~~~ NOTE 2: I have taken a few small liberties here, changing the English from the literal Quenya to make it flow more smoothly (ie: more long --> longer), and because not all the words I wanted are attested. Significant changes have the literal translated word(s) in brackets, ie: kiss [touch] The Sailor’s Lament Five years have gone but it seems much longer And you have vanished too But the bonds of love grow ever stronger Silent stars shimmer upon the sea Like the diamonds you forsook And the waves that kiss [touch] the hull [ship] are your lips kissing [touching] me The sea is cold and dark below The surface's golden shine And I will forget all but the desolate, The ocean, and you for all of time If I speak in whale-song will you answer my calls? In the loneliest fathoms you're dwelling You're a lady-in-waiting in the ocean's parlor halls I see your face in that of my figurehead [prow-woman] You lead me far and ever away And you're only lost, my darling, never dead The sea is cold and dark below The surface's golden shine And I will forget all but the desolate, The ocean, and you for all of time Long have I wandered, a stormriding sailor Singing I've sought you on the treacherous sea She is a jealous [greedy] mistress, and I am a failure [my soul is lost] I loved you too well and she took you away from me And the sun shines brightly over the water today But 'twas the sea who took you and she lives in me And you, my beloved, live ever too in me The sea is cold and dark below The surface's golden shine And I will forget all but the desolate, The ocean, and you for all of time

10-28-2005, 11:46 AM	#7
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Actually, tgwbs, I take the opposite view of your poem from you. To me the later and middle sections seem stronger and more moving than the early part, as they get increasingly bound up in powerful, iron concision. Perhaps this is because I have no Quenya, and so, while I can appreciate the beauty of the words, the subtleties of constructions are lost on me, leaving me to lean on the English. And in English, verses like this: Feanor son of Finwe! O! Feanor! Greatest yet unwise Noldo. Morgoth the Enemy slew Finwe Lost the Silmarils! seem a bit, well, naff, in comparison with: The Ring of Doom shall sing of Feanor, Yea! You shall follow Feanor!” He laughed. He left. with all its hard-hitting doom-laden syllables. But the verse that stood out most for me in original and translation was: Feanáro Úalmárea Quente Vére úmea Ar otso yondorya Quente Vérerya Feanor the Unblessed Spoke an evil Oath And his seven sons Spoke his Oath It has something...really bardic about it, with a capacity to bring on...what, for want of a better term, I shall label the Blood-Tingling effect. It completely transcends my ignorance of the grammar. I think an Inuit seal-hunter without Quenya or English would tremble in awe at this one. Unless a seal happened to pass by at an inopportune moment and distract his attention. More on the other two when I've read them properly. Can we expect any more poems? __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

10-25-2005, 11:05 AM	#5
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Righto. We're back! Stop looking at me like that... I remembered the deadline. I just ignored it - spawn had to go somewhere, and seeing as she represents a third of the poets, I didn't think it prudent to start any discussion without her. Additionally, I thought it would give time for more poems to come in, but unfortunately this hasn't happened. So we reach discussion. Remember, everybody can participate. Even non students. So then, a little explanation and a few facts about my poem. Firstly, the title, which can be interpreted to mean "The History of the Gnomes" was once the title of the Silmarillion. As can be guessed, I wanted to render some of the Silm into Quenya poem form, as it was obviously meant to be. There were a few problems with this. The Silm is very big, and Quenya vocab very small. I originally planned to call this first part of The History "Noldolante" (Fall of the Noldor) to mirror Maglor's song lamenting the fall of the Noldor. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time (or put in enough effort, interpret this as you will) to get to Alqualonde. As the deadline loomed, I had to wrap the poem up very quickly. I think this makes the last stanzas very weak - they were rushed. Obviously, I followed a rhyme scheme, but I did become a little sloppier afterthe first few stanzas. There are various lines I'm unhappy with, but overall, with a little sprucing up, I think it works.

10-27-2005, 08:52 PM	#6
Alcarillo Shadow of the Past Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minas Mor-go Posts: 1,007	Yes, I did say I was writing a poem, but when school started way back in September, it was only halfway finished, and very long (seventy lines! I've bitten off more than I can chew). I admit that I forgot about it for some time, and it was too long to get finished in the deadline rush. I'm planning on getting the poem in the next contest. Great poems, everyone. I see that TGWBS has labelled his poem as Part One. A good way to turn a long poem into a series of shorter ones. Enca has done an excellent job translating an English text, and works around some tricky wordings in a way that still keeps the meaning of the original words. And dancing spawn's poem is concise and pleasant, and expresses well the melancholy elves always seem to get eventually.