Tolkien's Symbol

[JesTheJade]

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Ok, I'm sure everyone knows what I am talking about. Tolkien's symbol that you see on title pages and various other places.

My question: What does it mean? I really have been dying to know the answer to this, but it has always slipped my mind or something, and I forget to ask. Even if it just means 'Tolkien', then how?

And, I guess I'll just say real quick that this is my 100th post at Barrow Downs. I'm really enjoying my time here, and thanks for having me! I hope all of you are still here when I say something about my 500th post someday. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

Jes

I usually watch over <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com>The Barrow Downs</a> and <a href=http://pub28.ezboard.com/bamonhen>Amon Hen</a>.

<a href=mailto:JesTheJade@excite.com>JesTheJade@excit e.com</a></p>

[Mithadan]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 147</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

J, R, second R (backwards) and T superimposed.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1392</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

Isn't his symbol just the intertwined letters J, R, R, and T?

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Mithadan]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 148</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

BTW, congrats on your 100th post. You may be the fastest to get there. I certainly took my time.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[JesTheJade]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quizmaster
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Re: Tolkien's Symbol

Now...you think I could have figured that out. I guess I just didn't think it would be that easy.

Do you know what the little cluster of 4 dots (there are two of them) are?

Jes

I usually watch over <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com>The Barrow Downs</a> and <a href=http://pub28.ezboard.com/bamonhen>Amon Hen</a>.

<a href=mailto:JesTheJade@excite.com>JesTheJade@excit e.com</a></p>

[JesTheJade]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quizmaster
Posts: 102</TD><TD><img src=http://www.geocities.com/monopatino/39mini.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

Thanks Mithaden. It was a bit fast...I posted, I think my 3rd post on Sept. 18. Something like that, anyway, a bit fast, yes.

Jes

I usually watch over <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com>The Barrow Downs</a> and <a href=http://pub28.ezboard.com/bamonhen>Amon Hen</a>.

<a href=mailto:JesTheJade@excite.com>JesTheJade@excit e.com</a></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1394</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

J.R.R.T.
four dots

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[JesTheJade]

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Re: Tolkien's Symbol

That explains it...except for the fact that there are two sets of four dots. Why two?

I know I am getting a little particular about a small thing, but I am just curious.

Jes

I usually watch over <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com>The Barrow Downs</a> and <a href=http://pub28.ezboard.com/bamonhen>Amon Hen</a>.

<a href=mailto:JesTheJade@excite.com>JesTheJade@excit e.com</a></p>

[Mithadan]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 149</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

Don't know about the dots. I think Gandalf's symbol also has 4 dots. We may need a runes specialist.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Sharkû]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hungry Ghoul
Posts: 469</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

Well, there you have it, Mithadan: runes.
In the ancient runes, words were divided by two dots like a colon inbetween. Therefore: J:R:R:T:.

</p>

[JesTheJade]

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Re: Tolkien's Symbol

Good call, Sharku! Now, that does make sense. Perhaps that solves this little riddle. For me, it does a whole lot more, considering I never even knew the JRRT part. Thanks for filling me in! <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

&lt;--- <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

Jes

I usually watch over <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com>The Barrow Downs</a> and <a href=http://pub28.ezboard.com/bamonhen>Amon Hen</a>.

<a href=mailto:JesTheJade@excite.com>JesTheJade@excit e.com</a></p>

[HerenIstarion]

Haunting Spirit
Posts: 65

Thank you Sharkû, I never payed any attention to the dots, it was a kind, hm, what's the name - an eye opener for me.

PS Jes, I still can beat you - I started posting 24.09, so I have a whole week before me (though I don't think I will manage that - that would be a busy week, and I would not have much time for merry-making here with you

[burrahobbit]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
Posts: 463</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

You may find it more difficult to beat galpsi, RKittle, or myself (yes, I do realize that my number is seemingly low for one that has been around for so long, I used to post much more frequently). But as there wasn't a counter when we passed 100 someone would have to go back and count, which could prove to be very difficult.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[gamegie]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 53</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Tolkien's Symbol

I don't know much about the symbol but I made a lot of posts before going back to europe where I did not have time to look at a computer, but I am backkkkkkk.....

Charming Humble Hobbit</p>

[Rose Cotton]

Wow i think Tolien did a good job with his symbol!

[Aralaithiel]

I like Tolkien's symbol way better than the artist formerly known as Prince's! LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[littlemanpoet]

Any of you try to turn your own initials into a rune like JRRT's, based on his example? I tried mine and I have stooooopid letters. They don't work at all. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Or maybe I just need to work at it some more... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Eruhen]

I tried to make my initials into a symbol like JRRT's, but either I'm too stoopid or I just can't make my initials (JWR) work. Though what's it really matter, huh?

[Aragost]

look at the message icon I used you will find a reversed R,a R,a T,and a J [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[Bêthberry]

Here's the symbol as it is currently reproduced by HarperCollins publishers:



What I find intriguing about this image is that the "j" appears to resemble a candle, with a small flame acting like the dot at the top. At the bottom of the "j", the hook resembles a musical symbol. Music and flame ....

Bethberry

[Evisse the Blue]

This is probably a stupid thing to ask but is this symbol Tolkien's own creation or was it made up later by others - designers, publishers, etc?
If it's Tolkien who created it then it does deserve to be talked about since nothing he ever did was without a purpose or meaning.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

J.R.R. Tolkien designed that monogram. In my opinion the style of the letters and the presence of runic word delimiters are clear indications of this.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

This symbol is definitively a design done by Tolkien himself. I have found a page showing the evolution of Tolkien's monogram:

analesarda.metropoliglobal.com/tolkien/anagrama.html

I'm sorry it is in Spanish, but you can see there the different Tolkien signatures each of them with the date in which it was drawn.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

Yesterday I was reading a Rudyard Kipling's book, the Just So Stories, and I found this picture in it:

http://www.ibmh.msk.su/vivovoco/VV/E_LESSON/KIPLING.HTM

If you look at the right down corner of the drawing, there is a monogram very similar to Tolkien's. In this case, in the monogram there are the letters R and K (from Rudyard Kipling). This drawning was done at about 1902.
Do you know whether it was usual for English writers at the beginning of the 20th century to desing their own monograms? Until now I thought that only Tolkien designed one, but it seems I was wrong.

[Joy]

Bêth has a very good point abou the Candle Flame and the music symbol.

When I first saw the symbol, I couldn't help but notice the similarity to the Treble Cleff in music.

Maybe this was intentional, to represent the Music of the Ainur (Ainulindalë) and the Flame Imperishable.

[Evisse the Blue]

The candle-like J also resembles a pipe, with a wisp of smoke coming out of it, in Gandalfian fashion.