Durin's Day - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-02-2005, 02:09 AM

Following on from the "Bilbo and Frodo's Birthday" thread, I'm just wondering if anyone 'celebrates' or otherwise observes Durin's Day. According to The Encyclopaedia of Arda , it is the 3rd of October this year, (coincidently, the day before my birthday).

Personally, I am considering some kind of celebration with my close circle of friends at college on Monday, possibly with party hats.

All the same, if there is already a thread of this sorts, then I apologise, and the Lord High Wight has every right to close this thread down.

All the same, Happy Durin's Day for Monday.

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-02-2005, 07:53 AM

I don't remember a previous thread on commemorating Durin's Day, so this is a good idea, Hookbill. However, as it's not a book discussion, I'm moving it to Novices and Newcomers. Please continue there.

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-02-2005, 07:57 AM

Ah, thanks Estelyn. Its just that the Books forum was where the Bilbo + Frodo birthday thread was.

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-02-2005, 08:03 AM

(Very true, and I just had a look at that thread to see if it needed moving as well. But it's slightly different in emphasis, discussing the exact date of the birthday according to the book, so for now, I'm leaving that one on Books.)

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-02-2005, 08:08 AM

I was just looking at this on TEoA.

Quote:

Dwarvish New Years
A selection of modern Dwarvish new years: all dates are shown in the modern (Gregorian) calendar
2001 16 October
2002 6 October
2003 26 September
2004 14 October
2005 3 October
2006 22 September
2007 11 October
2008 29 September
2009 18 October
2010 7 October
2011 27 September
Thursday 14 October 2004 is a definite Durin's Day: not only do the Sun and Moon appear in the sky together, but a partial solar eclipse occurs. The occurrence of other Durin's Days will depend on longitude.

Reading the article besides this on the Encyclopaedia reveals that Durins day will be different in which country you are in. I suppose this applied to the Dwarves of Middle Earth as well. This got me thinking, Dwarves in, say, The Blue Mountains, would have a different day to those in the iron hills, if its further enough away. It must be confusing.

Earendilyon · 10-02-2005, 02:00 PM

Taking the risk that this thread has to be re-relocated, I start a discussion on the actual date of the Dwarves' New Year.

Thorin Oakenshield says in the Hobbit (requoted from tEoA):

Quote:

"The first day of the dwarves' New Year ... is as all should know the first day of the last moon of Autumn on the threshold of Winter."

As we know, Winter starts at the Winter Solstice, which is on or about December 21 (on the Northern Hemisphere that is, but as JRRT's stories for almost 100% took place there, we take that for granted).
From the article Lunar Phase @ Wikipedia I got the information, that 'the last (new) moon of Autumn' in 2005 is December 1, so this year's Dwarvish New Year's Day is December 2, and not tomorrow, as tEoA claims.

[According to the Wikipedia article, on October 3 is this year the first New Moon of Autumn (i.e. the first new moon after the Autumn Equinox, which is on or around September 23), which would mean that the Dwarves' New Year's Day would be on October 4, coinciding with World Animal Day

].

- Earendilyon

Edit: made a few typo corrections, see also here.

Thinlómien · 10-03-2005, 08:05 AM

A nice idea. I myself have never thought about celebrating Durin's Day, because I haven't known when it is. From now, I'll probably at least mark it to my calendar...

Earendilyon · 10-03-2005, 08:24 AM

The question is, of course: which day will you mark on your calender as 'Dwarves' New Year's Day'?

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-03-2005, 09:20 AM

I think, for England at least, it is today. For there was a partial eclipse of the sun today, which if that article in the Encyclopaedia is anything to go by, means that today IS Durin's day in this part of the world.

Earendilyon · 10-03-2005, 09:26 AM

I happen to disagree (see my first post in this thread): today is the first new moon of Autumn, not the last! As Thorin said, the Dwarves' New Year is the first day in the last moon of Autumn.

Edit: made a typo correction, see also here.

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-03-2005, 09:34 AM

Ah, okay, fare point. Still, the eclipse was cool.

So, the question remains, when, if ever, do we say is Durin's day? Some time between now and midwinter would be ideal. Does anyone know when Durin’s day was in The Hobbit? Perhaps that would be a starting point.

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-04-2005, 01:27 AM

I've just had a good read of The Hobbit, mainly the latter chapters in an attempt to date Durin's day. It seems to be defiantly in October, However, it is probably near the middle as the Battle of Five armies takes place at around the 15th or there about. My maths is probably wrong, but from this, I guess that Durin's day in The Hobbit would have been some where around the 10th.

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-04-2005, 01:46 AM

I dug out Foster's Guide (well, actually I have it handy on the bookshelf right next to my computer) and found this definition:

Quote:

The first day of the Dwarvish year, so called only if the moon and the sun shone in the sky at the same time. The Dwarves' New Year was the first day of the last new crescent moon of Autumn.

As I understand that, New Year would be every year, of course, but it would rarely be Durin's Day as well. The whole system for determining the Dwarves' New Year is similar to the Christian church's Easter holiday, which also changes its date, dependant on the first new moon of spring.

Earendilyon · 10-12-2005, 05:26 AM

At another site, where I also posted my first post in this thread, someone pointed me at some typo's I made: I had used 'Winter Equinox' whereas it should've been 'Winter Solstice' ofcourse, and 'full moon' in stead of 'new moon'. Fortunately, I did use the correct date of this year's last new moon of Autumn in my calculations.

I'll correct the typo's in a minute

- Earendilyon

10-02-2005, 02:09 AM	#1
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	Durin's Day Following on from the "Bilbo and Frodo's Birthday" thread, I'm just wondering if anyone 'celebrates' or otherwise observes Durin's Day. According to The Encyclopaedia of Arda , it is the 3rd of October this year, (coincidently, the day before my birthday). Personally, I am considering some kind of celebration with my close circle of friends at college on Monday, possibly with party hats. All the same, if there is already a thread of this sorts, then I apologise, and the Lord High Wight has every right to close this thread down. All the same, Happy Durin's Day for Monday. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

10-02-2005, 07:53 AM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I don't remember a previous thread on commemorating Durin's Day, so this is a good idea, Hookbill. However, as it's not a book discussion, I'm moving it to Novices and Newcomers. Please continue there. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-02-2005, 07:57 AM	#3
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	Ah, thanks Estelyn. Its just that the Books forum was where the Bilbo + Frodo birthday thread was. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

10-02-2005, 08:03 AM	#4
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	(Very true, and I just had a look at that thread to see if it needed moving as well. But it's slightly different in emphasis, discussing the exact date of the birthday according to the book, so for now, I'm leaving that one on Books.) __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-03-2005, 08:05 AM	#7
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	A nice idea. I myself have never thought about celebrating Durin's Day, because I haven't known when it is. From now, I'll probably at least mark it to my calendar... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-03-2005, 08:24 AM	#8
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	The question is, of course: which day will you mark on your calender as 'Dwarves' New Year's Day'? __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.

10-03-2005, 09:20 AM	#9
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	I think, for England at least, it is today. For there was a partial eclipse of the sun today, which if that article in the Encyclopaedia is anything to go by, means that today IS Durin's day in this part of the world. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

10-03-2005, 09:26 AM	#10
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	I happen to disagree (see my first post in this thread): today is the first new moon of Autumn, not the last! As Thorin said, the Dwarves' New Year is the first day in the last moon of Autumn. Edit: made a typo correction, see also here. __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. Last edited by Earendilyon; 10-12-2005 at 05:31 AM.

10-03-2005, 09:34 AM	#11
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	Ah, okay, fare point. Still, the eclipse was cool. So, the question remains, when, if ever, do we say is Durin's day? Some time between now and midwinter would be ideal. Does anyone know when Durin’s day was in The Hobbit? Perhaps that would be a starting point. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

10-04-2005, 01:27 AM	#12
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	I've just had a good read of The Hobbit, mainly the latter chapters in an attempt to date Durin's day. It seems to be defiantly in October, However, it is probably near the middle as the Battle of Five armies takes place at around the 15th or there about. My maths is probably wrong, but from this, I guess that Durin's day in The Hobbit would have been some where around the 10th. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

10-12-2005, 05:26 AM	#14
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	At another site, where I also posted my first post in this thread, someone pointed me at some typo's I made: I had used 'Winter Equinox' whereas it should've been 'Winter Solstice' ofcourse, and 'full moon' in stead of 'new moon'. Fortunately, I did use the correct date of this year's last new moon of Autumn in my calculations. I'll correct the typo's in a minute - Earendilyon __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.