Possession of Narya - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tarien Ithil · 08-17-2003, 10:38 AM

It is said that Cirdan the Shipwright was the first owner of Narya, but in another reference, Tolkien claims that this isn't true, and Narya was given to someone else.

Who did Celebrimbor give it to?

Inderjit Sanghera · 08-17-2003, 11:13 AM

Narya and Vilya were given to Gil-Galad. He in turn gave them to Cirdan and Elrond eiether before he was marching out for the Last Alliance, or sometime before then, though both Elrond and Cirdan took part in the Last Alliance, one wonders why he didn't just wear thme both to war, though they woudln't have increased his fighting ability (The Rings weren't made for War, that wasn't their purpose) since Gil-Galad was supreme commander of the 'Western Part' of the alliance (Oropher refused the march under his rule and thought himself to be independent) Narya, which gave people strength and courage would have been better place with the commander of the Alliance?

[ August 17, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

Tar Elenion · 08-17-2003, 12:27 PM

Gil-galad never wore either of the Rings. Nor would he have, Sauron still possessed the One.

08-18-2003, 09:49 AM

If GilGalad had Narya and Vilya and then
1- He wore one of the rings and kept the rings until he was nearing deaths door, because Sauron probably guessed that GilGalad had at least one of the rings

Or

2-He kept the rings,and never wore them in the final battle, and Sauron still guessed that he had at least one of the rings

Or

He just gave Narya to Cirdan and gave Vilya to Elrond when he died

Tar Elenion · 08-18-2003, 04:48 PM

Gil-galad never wore either Ring (in the final battle or at any other time).

According to a narrative in UT Celebrimbor sent Vilya and Narya to Gil-galad. Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond just after the War of Elves and Sauron (ca. SA 1700), and gave Narya to Cirdan either as soon as he received it, or before he set out for the Last Alliance.

[ August 18, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ]

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-19-2003, 02:39 AM

Yes... moved, perhaps, by some deeper sense of instinctive premonition. Certainly it would appear to be fate that gave Elrond and Cirdan the rings.

Maéglin · 08-19-2003, 08:08 PM

Yes... Tolkien's characters have an uncanny ability to pre-empt their deaths or things that will happen..
Halbarad comes to mind:

Quote:

'This is an Evil Door,' said Halbarard, 'and my death lies beyond it.'

Also Huor predicted that his children and one of Turgon's would save them all just before he died (ie. Tuor and Idril = Earendil) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-20-2003, 01:22 AM

And on other occasions as well. Fate seems to exist in the mythology. Driven, I suppose, by the plan of Illuvatar and by the Music.

Lhunardawen · 08-21-2003, 12:23 AM

Just to continue, upon the arrival of the Istari in Middle-Earth, Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf. He was the last to arrive. Cirdan did not really know him, but he knew that he came as an emissary from Valinor. Cirdan believed that in a way, Gandalf was the most powerful of the Istari, and believed that he could somehow do something concerning the war with Sauron, so he gave Narya to Gandalf. He said something to Gandalf upon giving Narya, but my RotK is beyond my reach right now, so I can't mention it. Just read the Appendix of RotK, somewhere there. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gwaihir the Windlord · 08-21-2003, 01:51 AM

Quote:

'Take now this Ring', he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thous shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill.'

[The Silmarillion] =]

08-17-2003, 10:38 AM	#1
Tarien Ithil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Shade of a Tree Posts: 253	Possession of Narya It is said that Cirdan the Shipwright was the first owner of Narya, but in another reference, Tolkien claims that this isn't true, and Narya was given to someone else. Who did Celebrimbor give it to? __________________ “The English-speaking world is divided into those who have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and those who are going to read them.” – Sunday Times Crickhollow

08-17-2003, 11:13 AM	#2
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Narya and Vilya were given to Gil-Galad. He in turn gave them to Cirdan and Elrond eiether before he was marching out for the Last Alliance, or sometime before then, though both Elrond and Cirdan took part in the Last Alliance, one wonders why he didn't just wear thme both to war, though they woudln't have increased his fighting ability (The Rings weren't made for War, that wasn't their purpose) since Gil-Galad was supreme commander of the 'Western Part' of the alliance (Oropher refused the march under his rule and thought himself to be independent) Narya, which gave people strength and courage would have been better place with the commander of the Alliance? [ August 17, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ] __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

08-17-2003, 12:27 PM	#3
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 369	Gil-galad never wore either of the Rings. Nor would he have, Sauron still possessed the One. __________________ Tar-Elenion

08-18-2003, 04:48 PM	#5
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 369	Gil-galad never wore either Ring (in the final battle or at any other time). According to a narrative in UT Celebrimbor sent Vilya and Narya to Gil-galad. Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond just after the War of Elves and Sauron (ca. SA 1700), and gave Narya to Cirdan either as soon as he received it, or before he set out for the Last Alliance. [ August 18, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ] __________________ Tar-Elenion

08-18-2003, 09:49 AM	#4
Finrod Felagund Guest Posts: n/a	If GilGalad had Narya and Vilya and then 1- He wore one of the rings and kept the rings until he was nearing deaths door, because Sauron probably guessed that GilGalad had at least one of the rings Or 2-He kept the rings,and never wore them in the final battle, and Sauron still guessed that he had at least one of the rings Or He just gave Narya to Cirdan and gave Vilya to Elrond when he died

08-19-2003, 02:39 AM	#6
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Yes... moved, perhaps, by some deeper sense of instinctive premonition. Certainly it would appear to be fate that gave Elrond and Cirdan the rings.

08-20-2003, 01:22 AM	#8
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	And on other occasions as well. Fate seems to exist in the mythology. Driven, I suppose, by the plan of Illuvatar and by the Music.

08-21-2003, 12:23 AM	#9
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	Just to continue, upon the arrival of the Istari in Middle-Earth, Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf. He was the last to arrive. Cirdan did not really know him, but he knew that he came as an emissary from Valinor. Cirdan believed that in a way, Gandalf was the most powerful of the Istari, and believed that he could somehow do something concerning the war with Sauron, so he gave Narya to Gandalf. He said something to Gandalf upon giving Narya, but my RotK is beyond my reach right now, so I can't mention it. Just read the Appendix of RotK, somewhere there. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]