Tolkien and mythologies - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

vanwalossien · 03-30-2005, 11:45 AM

I was a bit surprised that I couldn't find a thread about this yesterday, so I thought I'd just ask..

It is often mentioned that Tolkien created a mythology by mixing influences from many existing mythologies and other sources, in almost the same way as a real mythology gets created over a span of decades or centuries.

I only wondered if someone who is fortunate enough to know more than me about such things could tell me about what traces of "real" mythologies that can be found in Tolkien's writing, because I'm very fascinated with myths, but know embarrasingly little about them...

Boromir88 · 03-30-2005, 12:54 PM

Here are some threads/posts that might help you out...

The Ka's very enlightening thread "Not just a tender of birds"

One of my posts in A probably too sympathetic view of Grima thread

Doing a search here's some other things I've found....

Lush's thread: Descent into Hell

littlemanpoet's Mythic Unities in LOTR

These forums are filled with connections to greek, anglo-norman/saxon, baltic, christianity...etc mythologies.

Lolidir · 04-27-2005, 09:00 PM

I do know some about this. I am sure you would find this in the threads Boromir88 has so graciously given us links to, but here is some of what I know.

I know for a fact the he drew some of his inspiration from Beowulf. As I am only a junior and have not yet read it I cannot compare, so I will leave that up to those who can. He also got some ideas from this old Finnish folktale called the Kalevala.

Wait!!!!!!!

I just found some things in a book I have. it is called The Magical Worlds of The Lord of the Rings its by David Colbert. I think it is a good book. It may not be totally correct with everything, but it does give some insite into stuff.

Anyway you were asking about mixing influences. Similar things in Tolkien's works and others. Ok here you go.

The Kalevala -
Kalevala creator = Ilmatar <---> Iluvatar = LotR creator (they are close)

Just as the ring causes corruption and war where ever it goes in LotR there was a magic item, the Sampo, that had the same results in the Kalevala.

Thats just some of the similarities. For more you could get the book or read the Kalevala for yourself, but until someone tells me that I am, or the book is wrong, I will believe it for now.

Beowulf-
In the same book Colbert quotes another book, which I also have, but it is harder to find stuff in, Road to Middle Earth by T.A. Shippey. Shippey stated that Legolas describes Meduseld (the Golden Hall) with the same line the describes the mead hall in Beowulf. "The light of it shines far over the land." Which is true if it is in Beowulf because I found it in LotR.

Again the magical world has more similarities described in it based on how Colbert see things, but I would agree with him on some, if not most of it. It is one of those things that you have to read for yourself and you decide. And if its not right, at least it get you thinking about things.

I am sorry this is so long. I hope that that isn't a bad thing.

Glofin · 05-20-2005, 07:46 AM

I was lucky enough to come across a great book called The Tolkien Fan's Medieval Reader. It is a book published by one of the folks on theonering.net, by the name of Turgon. It is a collection of many of the pieces of mythology that had allot of meaning to Tolkien.

The book included things translated from Old English, Middle English, Old Norse, Finnish, Welsh, and Irish.

The main influences i say would be the Old English, Old Norse, and Finnish. In the things translated from Old Norse you find the names Gandalf, Thorin, Gloin, Fili, Kili, etc...

http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/...ien/view/12722

There's a link abotu the book just so you can see what i'm talking about. The book is quite good. And it will give you a good idea of what influenced Tolkien, and soaked into his vibrant imagination from which he gathered from and began to fasion the fabric of Middle Earth.

Though i must add, to say Tolkien ONLY took old myths and re-worked them would be folly. Tolkien did do that, yet always he was able to add his own twist to the stories, and characters. That's yet another reason i love Midde Earth.

Glofin

03-30-2005, 11:45 AM	#1
vanwalossien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: middle of Nowhere/Norway Posts: 372	Tolkien and mythologies I was a bit surprised that I couldn't find a thread about this yesterday, so I thought I'd just ask.. It is often mentioned that Tolkien created a mythology by mixing influences from many existing mythologies and other sources, in almost the same way as a real mythology gets created over a span of decades or centuries. I only wondered if someone who is fortunate enough to know more than me about such things could tell me about what traces of "real" mythologies that can be found in Tolkien's writing, because I'm very fascinated with myths, but know embarrasingly little about them... __________________ "The ships hung in the air in much the same way as bricks don't"

03-30-2005, 12:54 PM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,519	Here are some threads/posts that might help you out... The Ka's very enlightening thread "Not just a tender of birds" One of my posts in A probably too sympathetic view of Grima thread Doing a search here's some other things I've found.... Lush's thread: Descent into Hell littlemanpoet's Mythic Unities in LOTR These forums are filled with connections to greek, anglo-norman/saxon, baltic, christianity...etc mythologies. __________________ Fenris Penguin

04-27-2005, 09:00 PM	#3
Lolidir Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Roaming the plains of Middle Earth Posts: 103	A little bit I did in a paper for school ( if i can remember it). I do know some about this. I am sure you would find this in the threads Boromir88 has so graciously given us links to, but here is some of what I know. I know for a fact the he drew some of his inspiration from Beowulf. As I am only a junior and have not yet read it I cannot compare, so I will leave that up to those who can. He also got some ideas from this old Finnish folktale called the Kalevala. Wait!!!!!!! I just found some things in a book I have. it is called The Magical Worlds of The Lord of the Rings its by David Colbert. I think it is a good book. It may not be totally correct with everything, but it does give some insite into stuff. Anyway you were asking about mixing influences. Similar things in Tolkien's works and others. Ok here you go. The Kalevala - Kalevala creator = Ilmatar <---> Iluvatar = LotR creator (they are close) Just as the ring causes corruption and war where ever it goes in LotR there was a magic item, the Sampo, that had the same results in the Kalevala. Thats just some of the similarities. For more you could get the book or read the Kalevala for yourself, but until someone tells me that I am, or the book is wrong, I will believe it for now. Beowulf- In the same book Colbert quotes another book, which I also have, but it is harder to find stuff in, Road to Middle Earth by T.A. Shippey. Shippey stated that Legolas describes Meduseld (the Golden Hall) with the same line the describes the mead hall in Beowulf. "The light of it shines far over the land." Which is true if it is in Beowulf because I found it in LotR. Again the magical world has more similarities described in it based on how Colbert see things, but I would agree with him on some, if not most of it. It is one of those things that you have to read for yourself and you decide. And if its not right, at least it get you thinking about things. I am sorry this is so long. I hope that that isn't a bad thing. __________________ "Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to"

05-20-2005, 07:46 AM	#4
Glofin Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 19	I was lucky enough to come across a great book called The Tolkien Fan's Medieval Reader. It is a book published by one of the folks on theonering.net, by the name of Turgon. It is a collection of many of the pieces of mythology that had allot of meaning to Tolkien. The book included things translated from Old English, Middle English, Old Norse, Finnish, Welsh, and Irish. The main influences i say would be the Old English, Old Norse, and Finnish. In the things translated from Old Norse you find the names Gandalf, Thorin, Gloin, Fili, Kili, etc... http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/...ien/view/12722 There's a link abotu the book just so you can see what i'm talking about. The book is quite good. And it will give you a good idea of what influenced Tolkien, and soaked into his vibrant imagination from which he gathered from and began to fasion the fabric of Middle Earth. Though i must add, to say Tolkien ONLY took old myths and re-worked them would be folly. Tolkien did do that, yet always he was able to add his own twist to the stories, and characters. That's yet another reason i love Midde Earth. Glofin __________________ Not all those who wander are lost