Look at the Bo-ones.

[Boromir88]

No this is not a Monty Python thread, but I think the title fits the topic quite well. Anyway, it's about poor old Denethor's bones.

Then Denethor leaped upon the table, and standing there wreathed in fire and smoke he took up the staff of his stewardship that lay at his feet and broke it on his knee. Casting the pieces into the blaze he bowed and laid himself on the table, clasping the palantir with both hands upon his breast.....And then Denethor gave a great cry, and afterwards spoke no more, nor was ever again seen by mortal men.

It's important to know that it didn't happen the way it did in the movies. With Denethor running around wondering why you put oil on yourself, and stand by fire you would go up in flames. So, that means we must assume that Denethor's body was burned to ashes. And I must ask what did they do with his bones?

I'm assuming that this fire would not get hot enough to burn the bones to ashes. Because, sometimes crematoriums don't get hot enough to let's say insinerate the teeth. But, it may have gotten hot enough where Denethor is now a hump of ashes. But, whether you think he's a hump of ashes, or a pile of bones, I'm wondering what they do with it? Did they ever give Denethor a funeral/burial.

I tagged on that quote at the end because it says "nor was ever seen again my mortal man." This to me is rather confusing, and I wonder if they just left Denethor's remains lying there, along with the palantir?

[Formendacil]

Well, I don't know for sure about Denethor's bones, but someone must have moved the Palantir- indeed looked in it, because, to quote:

Then Denethor leapt upon the table, and standing there wreathed in fire and smoke he took up the staff of his stewardship that lay at his feet and broke it on his knee. Casting the pieces into the blaze he bowed and laird himself on the table, clasping the palantir with both hands upon his breast. And it was said that ever after, if any many looked in that Stone, unless he had a great strength of will to turn it to other purpose, he saw only two aged hands withering in flame.

How would they know this if nobody handled the palantirp?

I would take Tolkien's words to mean that nobody ever saw him, in life again. I admit that that is rather redundant, I mean it's pretty obvious that Denethor dies. Perhaps, though, this is just a more final, mythic, way of expressing it.

On the other hand, perhaps it means that nobody ever saw Denethor's ghost/spirit in times to come. Denethor being the sort of person he is, it wouldn't have been a huge surprise to see him come back and haunt Faramir, setting aside Man's departure from the Circles of the World for a moment.

I don't know what they would have done with Denethor's remains though (although I am pretty sure that they did something). I doubt they would have had a funeral service or anything similar for him, not with the War going on, and then the Return of the King, and the commencement of his reign. You wouldn't want a reminder of the old anti-monarchist at this point, would you? Perhaps there was a private ceremony of some sorts. In any case, I imagine that the remains were interred in Rath Dinen. Denethor was still a steward- and one who had done his job well for quite a few years. He still deserved to lay in his prepared tomb.

At least, all that is in my opinion.

[Mithalwen]

Well Gandalf says at the end when one of the hobbits wished for a palantir that "he would not wish to see ehat the palatir of Minas Tirith would show and I think it also says at some point that unless the user had great strength of mind they would only see a pair of aging hands withering into flame.

And because not everyone has a taste for the macabre .... I apologise for this - but you see why people wouldn't hang around to watch.... ( I had a teacher when I was 10 us who told how he had watched funerals by the Ganges... so this seems quite tame!).


"A few years ago I stood three or so feet from a burning corpse with a missionary pastor from Singapore and his wife who were visiting us. The head was already burnt beyond recognition and the skull split open due to internal expansion from the heat of the fire. The lower legs and feet were unscorched, as they were protruding from the pile of burning wood and stubble upon which the man's body lay. The professional Hindu burners were poking the body from time to time to keep the members in the fire and were adding stubble and wood as needed. The bones were contracting and popping; the bodily organs were frying and the juices sizzling in the intense heat. My wife, a nurse with experience in a hospital in a very remote part of Asia and in an intensive care ward in the States, stood with another friend observing the ghastly sight from a distance, unwilling to come closer. The air for a hundred yards or more was filled with the unmistakable, stomach-turning stench of burning human flesh. When the fire had burnt most of the body, the ashes and remaining members were shoved into the river. This is cremation as has been practiced by heathen religions for centuries, but without the sanitization adopted in more technically advanced areas."

If they were lucky there would have been just ash (bone fragments) - if not they would have had to do something with it... couldn't just live the greasy carrion there.....


If you do have a taste for the macabre and are interrested in knowing more then I heartily recommend "Stiff: The curious life of human cadavers" by Mary Roach