About elves and immortality - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

TheSquireof Aragorn · 08-01-2003, 07:59 PM

Could someone explain about Feanor and "doing time" I'm somewhat at a loss.

Nils · 08-01-2003, 08:19 PM

In short, Tolkien believed that Elves were to be immortal, but because of Melkor's corruption of Middle-earth they could die. When they died, Elven spirits were to go to The Halls of Mandos where they were to purge themselves of any evil that their corrupted bodies added to their souls in life. It is very similar to the Catholic concept of purgatory.

Once the evil has been purged, the Valar were to create new bodies for the Elven souls to enter so that they may live once again.

Feanor was so screwed up and hateful that I don't think he was ever able to purge the evil from his soul.

Socialist · 08-01-2003, 10:50 PM

No, I think Feanor saw the error of his ways. He is not to be reincarnated until the Dagor Dagorlath. That's his punishment, it doesn't mean he is still hateful and screwed up.

Nils · 08-01-2003, 10:55 PM

Feanor's hate was very strong. Do you have any textual support for the idea that Feanor's time in Mandos was punitive in nature?

TheSquireof Aragorn · 08-05-2003, 07:19 PM

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Amarie of the Vanyar · 08-07-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Do you have any textual support for the idea that Feanor's time in Mandos was punitive in nature?

I'd rather say purgative, but this is a subtle distinction. It can also be considered as punitive [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

When Glorfindel of Goldolin was slain his spirit (...) would be obliged at once to retunr to the land of the Valar. Then he would go to Mandos and be judged, and would then remain in the 'Halls of Waiting' until Manwë granted him release. (...) It was therefore the duty of the Valar (...) to restore them to incarnate life, if they desire it. But this 'restoration' could be delayed by Manwë if the fëa while alive had done evil deeds and refused to repent of them, or still harboured any malice against any other person among the living.
Last Writings; HoME 12, The Peoples of Middle-Earth

(Bold is mine).

Nils · 08-07-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

But this 'restoration' could be delayed by Manwë if the fëa while alive had done evil deeds and refused to repent of them, or still harboured any malice against any other person among the living.

This is exactly why I don't believe Feanor could ever be rehoused. He still harboured malice against others.

08-01-2003, 07:59 PM	#41
TheSquireof Aragorn Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan U.S.A. Posts: 46	Could someone explain about Feanor and "doing time" I'm somewhat at a loss. __________________ "One more soldier dies, and when he gets to Heaven, to St.Peter he will tell, one more soldier reporting for duty, I've served my time in Hell."

08-01-2003, 08:19 PM	#42
Nils Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 129	In short, Tolkien believed that Elves were to be immortal, but because of Melkor's corruption of Middle-earth they could die. When they died, Elven spirits were to go to The Halls of Mandos where they were to purge themselves of any evil that their corrupted bodies added to their souls in life. It is very similar to the Catholic concept of purgatory. Once the evil has been purged, the Valar were to create new bodies for the Elven souls to enter so that they may live once again. Feanor was so screwed up and hateful that I don't think he was ever able to purge the evil from his soul. __________________ For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned ~Matthew 12:37

08-01-2003, 10:50 PM	#43
Socialist Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 13	No, I think Feanor saw the error of his ways. He is not to be reincarnated until the Dagor Dagorlath. That's his punishment, it doesn't mean he is still hateful and screwed up. __________________ Knock Knock. Who's there? Weapons of Mass Destruction. So there you are!

08-01-2003, 10:55 PM	#44
Nils Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 129	Feanor's hate was very strong. Do you have any textual support for the idea that Feanor's time in Mandos was punitive in nature? __________________ For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned ~Matthew 12:37

08-05-2003, 07:19 PM	#45
TheSquireof Aragorn Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan U.S.A. Posts: 46	Thanks for clearing that up for me. __________________ "One more soldier dies, and when he gets to Heaven, to St.Peter he will tell, one more soldier reporting for duty, I've served my time in Hell."