The effects and powers of Vilya

[Iarhen]

I do not have information on what were the effects of Vilya over Imladris or over Elrond.

I know that it was the mightiest of the 3, and that thanks to the Ring, the stars shone brightest over the Rivendell sky, brighter than in any other place. And, obviously, it helped Elrond to resist the weariness of living in this world.

But other than that, what were the effects and powers of Vilya? I know Nenya helped mantain Lorien as a safe place against all evil, and granted Galadriel power over waters and mists.

So?

[Tar Elenion]

I know Nenya [...] granted Galadriel power over waters and mists.

How do you know that?

In any event what we know of Vilya's powers are:
"The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance - this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor - thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination."
Letter 131

"`The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow."
Elrond speaking in FotR, Council of Elrond

"Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world."
The Silmarillion, Of The Rings Of Power

[Salocin]

I think the passage with the mirror of Galadrial and the descussion between Frodo and Galadrial about the rings of power make it quite obvious.

Was it Vilya that allowed Elrond to floud the fords of Rivendell?

[Meoshi]

Is it just me, or could it affect the fact that it is never truly night in Imladris?

[Salocin]

Where did you hear that? I seem to remember it being night when the dwarf company arrived in The Hobbit. And it had to be night when the moon writting on the map was read as well as at the feast on the night of Frodo's recovery.

[Iarhen]

I think Meoshi is misinterpreting a quote of LOTR, that says that thanks to Vilya, migthiest of the three, the stars shone brigher above Lord Elrond´s house than in any other place.

Otherwise, Im still doubtful about the status of Vilya as "mightiest of the 3". Gandalf says that without the rising of the dwarf kings on the northern mountains, Angmar or Smaug, or other forces from Sauron coming from the north would have wiped Rivendell out.

And we see a Lothlorien, protected by Nenya, fending off the 3 direct assaults from Dol Guldur. We see a Lorien protected not only from the Fortress of the Black Forest, but from the Moria goblins and from the direct view that the Eye of Sauron had over Lorien (an Eye that had a difficult time seeing Rivendell thanks to the Misty Mountains).

The mightiest realm? Lorien. And you cant use the population numbers (Lorien had the greatest, obviously) because there were a lot of the Noldorin high elves dwelling in Rivendell... elves whose names were worth for a 1000 swords...

My conclusion: Nenya was, at least, more powerful in terms of preservation and in terms of defense. Vilya was second.

[Salocin]

Well what ever you say [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] . Tolkien seemed to think that Vilya was the most powerful of the three, but what does the creator of ME know.

[Tar Elenion]

Salocin wrote:
I think the passage with the mirror of Galadrial and the descussion between Frodo and Galadrial about the rings of power make it quite obvious.

Where in that passage does it say that Nenya granted Galadriel power over water and mist?

Was it Vilya that allowed Elrond to floud the fords of Rivendell

It is not textually suggested. The Rings of Power "enhanced the natural powers of a possessor" so if any influence of Vilya can be inferred, it would be that Vilya merely improved Elrond's ability to do something he could have done with out Vilya.

[Tar Elenion]

Iarhen wrote:
Otherwise, Im still doubtful about the status of Vilya as "mightiest of the 3".

In RotK, The Grey Havens, JRRT wrote:
"Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three."

Gandalf says that without the rising of the dwarf kings on the northern mountains, Angmar or Smaug, or other forces from Sauron coming from the north would have wiped Rivendell out.
And we see a Lothlorien, protected by Nenya, fending off the 3 direct assaults from Dol Guldur. We see a Lorien protected not only from the Fortress of the Black Forest, but from the Moria goblins and from the direct view that the Eye of Sauron had over Lorien (an Eye that had a difficult time seeing Rivendell thanks to the Misty Mountains).

The mightiest realm? Lorien. And you cant use the population numbers (Lorien had the greatest, obviously) because there were a lot of the Noldorin high elves dwelling in Rivendell... elves whose names were worth for a 1000 swords...

In FotR, Many Meetings:
Frodo asks:
"What about Rivendell and the Elves? Is Rivendell safe?"
Gandalf replies:
"Yes, at present, until all else is conquered."

'All else' according to Gandalf.

[ April 11, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ]

[the phantom]

In RotK, The Grey Havens, JRRT wrote:
"Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three."

In FotR, Many Meetings:
Frodo asks:
"What about Rivendell and the Elves? Is Rivendell safe?"
Gandalf replies:
"Yes, at present, until all else is conquered."

'All else' according to Gandalf.

I was about to post those, Tar Elenion! You beat me to it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

"they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor" Letter 131

Yes, Elrond was already kick-butt powerful without the ring. People underestimate him. Also, Galadriel didn't go out there and defeat the bad guys herself, she had the bonus of several thousand elves who were crackshots with a bow and arrow. Elrond, on the other hand, might have been able to do it alone by just wiping the enemy out when they tried to cross the river.

And also, if I'm remembering correctly, when those orcs went into Lothlorien on the trail of the fellowship, why didn't they find them? Galadriel? No, it was because the elves guarding that area led the orcs ahead until an army came up and killed them all. I don't think we can use Lorien turing back assaults as a measure for Nenya's power nor Galadriel's power. Most of it can be explained by the fact that there were a bunch of elves living in Lothlorien.

[ April 11, 2003: Message edited by: the phantom ]