Understanding one another in the Fellowship - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Evenstar · 03-31-2003, 12:03 PM

Since there were people representing different races in the Fellowship, do you think they understood each other. I mean,for instance, would Legolas understand the Dwarvish language Gimli speaks and would Gimli understand Elvish? Reply soon with your opinion.

Noxomanus · 03-31-2003, 12:11 PM

well Legolas surely wouldn't understand Khuz-Dul (Dwarvish) as that tongue was kept nearly completely secret from non-Dwarves. As for Gimli,speaking "Elfish",I don't know.Probably not.

Dondagnirion · 03-31-2003, 12:56 PM

Gimli did know elvish. A lot of dwarves did. When they were all at the gate of Moria you will notice that the words were written in Elvish, Quenya I think, and Gimli certainly knew what it said, just not how to solve the riddle. I hope that answers your question.

Dondagnirion

Phrim · 03-31-2003, 01:20 PM

All of the members of the Fellowship spoke Westron, the "common tongue" spread by the Numenoreans during their dominion on Middle-Earth. Thus, while some may have not understood the native tongues of others, they were all able to communicate with each other.

Legolas · 03-31-2003, 04:06 PM

Phrim has given the correct answer.

Additionally...

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well Legolas surely wouldn't understand Khuz-Dul (Dwarvish) as that tongue was kept nearly completely secret from non-Dwarves.

No one but Gimli and Gandalf would've understood the dwarven language, though Aragorn and Legolas may have been familiar with certain words (proper nouns, I imagine).

Lush · 03-31-2003, 04:10 PM

Basically, the Fellowship was nothing like the U.N.

Kuruharan · 03-31-2003, 04:29 PM

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No one but Gimli and Gandalf would've understood the dwarven language

Since when does Gandalf know Khuzdul? What he says is...

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I shall not have to call on Gimli for words of the secret dwarf-tongue that they teach to none.

That pretty well states that he did not know Khuzdul, at least beyond the things like place names that everyone knew. He certainly did not know enough to be fluent in it.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 03-31-2003, 06:59 PM

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That pretty well states that he did not know Khuzdul, at least beyond the things like place names that everyone knew. He certainly did not know enough to be fluent in it.

You don't have to be taught to learn things. Besides, you can always teach yourself. And Gandalf is very old, so I assume he would have had more than enough time to figure out the language. When Gandalf says

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I shall not have to call on Gimli for words of the secret dwarf-tongue that they teach to none.

it might me implying that he [Gandalf] went through the painstaking task of learning the language himself and he does not need Gimli's help. And it never said he didn't know the language.

Arwen Imladris · 03-31-2003, 08:53 PM

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I shall not have to call on Gimli for words of the secret dwarf-tongue that they teach to none.

What he ment was that the password would have been in Elvish because that is who made the door. (read the passage right before this in FOTR) Gandalf was old, but he had only been in ME for part of that time. Gandalf probebly know more than the rest of the fellowship but being old does not mean he knew dwarvish.

Kuruharan · 03-31-2003, 08:57 PM

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You don't have to be taught to learn things. Besides, you can always teach yourself. And Gandalf is very old, so I assume he would have had more than enough time to figure out the language.

I'm afraid that you do have to be taught Khuzdul. It is not something you can pick up on your own. The reason is that (besides the Petty-Dwarves) they do not speak it in the presence of non-Dwarves. Place names and such being the only known exceptions. If they wanted to hold private conversations in the presence of outsiders they used their "gesture-speech" which was almost impossible for outsiders to see.

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it might me implying that he [Gandalf] went through the painstaking task of learning the language himself and he does not need Gimli's help.

I doubt that he had the opportunity, or the mentor to teach him. He was a very busy wizard. I suppose that it could be argued that he learned it in the First or Second Ages when he was not necessarily in physical form. He could have drifted over to Middle-earth and spent a few hundred years studying the Dwarves to pick up their language. However, this is unlikely. For one thing, I can't remember that the Maia visited Middle-earth very much after the Dwarves woke up (might be wrong about that though, can't remember for sure). The other thing is, why would he want to spend the time? It would take a long while to pick up the language from this type of observation. Why would he waste his time doing something like this when there was little reason to do so?

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And it never said he didn't know the language.

True, however the statement is dripping with that implication.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 03-31-2003, 09:04 PM

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Basically, the Fellowship was nothing like the U.N.

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Eressië Ailin · 03-31-2003, 09:51 PM

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When they were all at the gate of Moria you will notice that the words were written in Elvish, Quenya I think, and Gimli certainly knew what it said,

Gimli may have known what it said, but I don't think that he could read it. Gimli seemed to know quite a bit about (ancient) Moria, and was quite eager to go there. Many of his relatives could have simply told him what was written on the Gates of Moria. He didn't have to be able to read it.

03-31-2003, 12:03 PM	#1
The Evenstar Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 103	Understanding one another in the Fellowship Since there were people representing different races in the Fellowship, do you think they understood each other. I mean,for instance, would Legolas understand the Dwarvish language Gimli speaks and would Gimli understand Elvish? Reply soon with your opinion. __________________ "The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the sea." - Galadriel

03-31-2003, 12:11 PM	#2
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	well Legolas surely wouldn't understand Khuz-Dul (Dwarvish) as that tongue was kept nearly completely secret from non-Dwarves. As for Gimli,speaking "Elfish",I don't know.Probably not. __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

03-31-2003, 12:56 PM	#3
Dondagnirion Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Glittering Caves Posts: 241	Gimli did know elvish. A lot of dwarves did. When they were all at the gate of Moria you will notice that the words were written in Elvish, Quenya I think, and Gimli certainly knew what it said, just not how to solve the riddle. I hope that answers your question. Dondagnirion __________________ "It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing." - Frodo "Will shall be the sterner, heart the bolder, spirit the greater, as our strength lessens." "The only reason for time is so that everything doesnt happen all at once." - Albert Einstein

03-31-2003, 04:10 PM	#6
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Basically, the Fellowship was nothing like the U.N. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

03-31-2003, 01:20 PM	#4
Phrim Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 72	All of the members of the Fellowship spoke Westron, the "common tongue" spread by the Numenoreans during their dominion on Middle-Earth. Thus, while some may have not understood the native tongues of others, they were all able to communicate with each other.