3 rings for the Elven Kings??????? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

03-19-2002, 02:02 PM

Wait, but didn't Galadriel get one of the three rings? What is she doing, being a King? *is confused* [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Raefindel · 03-19-2002, 02:08 PM

Yes, Galadreil has one of the 3 Elven rings. Gandlaf and Elrond have the others.

Galadriel used hers to maintain Lothlorien. That is why it faded after the One ring was destroyed and continues to fade after Galadriel left Middle Earth.

Someone else is going to have to help me out with the names of the three, I always get them confused. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

And by the way, Welcome to the Downs Nuinlambe.

[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

Mhoram · 03-19-2002, 02:11 PM

I would suggest that in this instant King is synomous with Lord, i'm sure there is some quote to futher this idea.

Orodhromeus · 03-19-2002, 02:26 PM

The 3 are Vilya, Nenya, Narya

muffin_goddess · 03-19-2002, 02:53 PM

I think the word king is synonymous with ruler (of the monarchial variaty not the mesuring)

Mhoram · 03-19-2002, 02:56 PM

lol muffin, your signature rocks.

avarerniliel · 03-19-2002, 04:53 PM

Galadriel was a powerful ruler, and a queen...she was more powerful than her husband Celeborn the king anyway. So she got the ring and the cool mirror and he was stuck with, um, her.

Raefindel · 03-19-2002, 04:59 PM

LOL! I like the way you put that "Stuck with her" [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Vilya Elathelas of Rivendell · 03-19-2002, 07:36 PM

about the names of the rings:

Nenya 'belongs' to Galadriel.
Narya is held by Gandalf.
Vilya resides with Elrond.

Hope that clears it up, if it ever needed clearing up in the first place. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

lathspell · 03-31-2002, 12:39 PM

And first it was like this:
- Narya was with Cirdan, but when the istari came to ME, he gave it to Gandalf
- Nenya was with Galadriel
- Vilya was with Gil-Galad and given to Elrond after the Last Aliance

Lomelinde · 03-31-2002, 02:39 PM

Come on now, Celeborn played an important part too. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] If you read the book again (FOTR), you may be able to pick out the subtle hints that he is a little more down-to-(Middle)Earth elf than his wife and definitely more perceptive when it comes to weighty decisions. For example, he has the elves make boats for the Fellowship to give Aragorn more time to determine the next step. He is the one who perceives that the Company is heartsick and weary, and that Aragorn is undecided. So there. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Sorry that was way off the topic, but I had to defend one of the cooler elves in LOTR. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Aralaithiel · 03-31-2002, 03:38 PM

Well...don't read a chapter in my fan fic that will be up soon (gotta send it to BW! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]). You won't like what happens to Celeborn! Don't worry, I don't kill him! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Anyhoo...king=lord=ruler=monarch=head honcho=big cheese
OK...definitely getting waaayyy tooo silly [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

VanimaEdhel · 03-31-2002, 05:29 PM

Oh: if you click on "Edit Post" (the little hammer icon), one of the options is deleting a post if you accidentally post two times! Just to let you know...you can also actually EDIT the post, of course, but...haha...

And I was going to say what everyone else was going to say: Galadriel counts as a king (also, "Three rings to the Elven kings and queens..." didn't fit).

Daegwenn · 03-31-2002, 10:32 PM

What do the rings do?

I gathered that Nenya acted like a preserver-and therefore, Lothlorien is unchanged by time. Vilya hid Imladris (What else did it do?). But I am a little uncertain of Narya's use. I heard something about it had the power to give strength and courage to its wearer. Is that right?

~~Daegwenn

Thalionyulma · 04-01-2002, 07:13 AM

I thought Galadriel and Celeborn were more like "guardians" in Lothlorien, and Amroth (their son?) was the king? Did they take the title of King and Queen? or am i completely confused about the whole thing?...i blame it on the flu!
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:

What did the Rings do?

Narya is the ring of FIRE
(probably Cirdan gave it to Gandalf to help him with his "burdens", and aid him in his mission against the Dark Lord Sauron)

okay here's where I get mixed up
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
Nenya is the Ring of WATER
(Galadriel used it to "preserve" and protect Lothlorien - maybe that's how she got "the cool mirror")

Vilya is the Ring of AIR
(how Elrond used the darn thing to hide Rivendell/Imladris is beyond my aching head to comprehend - enchantment? maybe he used it to flood the ford)

Okay... please feel free to correct me on any of this. My brain now knows what a headcold is. *blows nose*
[img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Amarinth · 04-01-2002, 07:35 AM

so, to recapitulate:

nenya, with galadriel, the ring of water, she used to create a microcosm of the blessed realm in ME -- lorien, where time flies by swiftly in order to ward off the sorrow and weariness of the undying elves.

vilya, with elrond, the ring of air, he used for healing and rest and, as a pre-requisite, to keep rivendell secret from the enemy.

narya, with gandalf, the ring of fire, given by cirdan to help him kindle the flame in their hearts and minds. there's an appropriate quote but don't have rotk with me.

thalionyulma- i think there is a chapter in the unfinished tales which both depicts and negates amroth being the son of galadriel and celeborn. if i remember correctly, christopher tolkien thought that his dad meant the latter to stand.

---------------------------------------------
every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse

Aragorn Husband of Arwen · 04-02-2002, 08:49 AM

If Gandulf got one of the rings, why on the movie did it not show it? (or Elrond for that matter).

Also, where does it says Elrond and Gandulf getting the rings? I don't remember it saying that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

alaklondewen · 04-02-2002, 03:02 PM

The location of the other two rings is hidden until the end of ROTK. That is in the books of course, but who knows how he'll do it in the movies. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

alaklondewen · 04-02-2002, 03:04 PM

Oh yeah! Welcome to the 'Downs, Aragorn Husband of Arwen. Enjoy your time here.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Menewilwarin of Mirkwood · 04-03-2002, 04:11 AM

How do you people know all this stuff about the rings? I don't remember reading about it.... is it in LOTR or another book, like the silmarillion or something? Please help! I'm very confused... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

alaklondewen · 04-03-2002, 09:47 AM

Yes, there is a little in LotR, but a lot more in The Silmarillion. Read it, it's VERY informative. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Nevtalathiel · 04-03-2002, 10:22 AM

If the ring Gandalf has is the ring of fire, is that why he says all the stuff he does to the Balrog about beinga servant of the secret fire, or am I just making completely random connections? (or connexions as Tolkein spells it, anyone else ever noticed that?)

Airetalathwen · 04-04-2002, 09:05 AM

I don't know how to make the connection about being the servant of the secret fire,(although I know I've read something about it somewhere..) but here's the quote some people are looking for.

Quote:

Now all these things were achieved for the most part by the counsel and vigilance of Mithrandir(Gandalf), and in the last few days he was revealed as a lord of great reverence, and clad in white he rode into battle; but not until the time came for him to depart was it know that he had long guarded the Red Ring of Fire. At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Cirdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return.
'Take now this Ring,' he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my hear is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.'

~Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age from the Silmarillion.

Quote:

There was Gildor and many fair Elven folk; and there to Sam's wonder rode Elrond and Galadriel. Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three. But Galadriel sat upon a white palfrey and was robed all in glimmering white, like clouds about the Moon; for she herself seemed to shine with a soft light. On her finger was Nenya, the ring wrought of mithril, that bore a single white stone flickering like a frosty star.

......As he turned and came towards them Frodo saw that Gandalf now wore openly on his hand the Third Ring, Marya the Great, and the stone upon it was red as fire.

~The Grey Havens from the Return of the King

Maybe somebody else can answer the question about the Flame of Arnor.

~Airetalathwen

Nevtalathiel · 04-04-2002, 09:58 AM

This is not about the three eleven rings, but what beame of the 7 rings given to the dwarf-lords?

Bruce MacCulloch · 04-04-2002, 02:00 PM

Quote:

It is said that the foundation of each of the Seven Hoards of the Dwarf-kings of old was a golden ring; but all those hoards long ago were plundered and the Dragons devoured them, and of the Seven Rings some were consumed in fire and some Sauron recovered.

From 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age', The Silmarillion

Amarinth · 04-04-2002, 08:58 PM

Quote:

If the ring Gandalf has is the ring of fire, is that why he says all the stuff he does to the Balrog about beinga servant of the secret fire, or am I just making completely random connections? (or connexions as Tolkein spells it, anyone else ever noticed that?)

[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] yeah i noticed too! here's my random connection, nev, quoted from the silmarillion:

Quote:

"Ea! Let these things Be! And i will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be, and those of you that will may go down into it." --Eru Illuvator (the Creator), speaking to the Valar, the Powers of the World, before creation

i surmise gandalf was speaking of the "flame imperishable" as the secret fire, in reference to his being ultimately a servant of eru illuvatar, which in all respects he is.

---------------------------------------------
every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse

Nevtalathiel · 04-05-2002, 03:20 AM

Thank you, that all makes sense now [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

04-07-2002, 03:34 PM

I have a question about the Rings (Gandalf's and Elrond's.) At the end of "The Mirror of Galadriel," Galadriel tells Frodo because he is a Ring-bearer he can see what is hidden, and that is why he can see her Ring and Sam can't, but if Frodo had that ability, why couldn't he see Gandalf and Elrond's rings as well?

VanimaEdhel · 04-07-2002, 04:29 PM

Hey! In the midst of a blonde moment, I had a moment of clarity and thought of this:

Maybe the ring was originally given to Celeborn, but he gave it to Galadriel (for whatever reason: she does seem more powerful, maybe that was it). That is always possible.

And they didn't show the rings in the movie because...well: they cut Glorfindel , so...that basically answers that question! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Amarinth · 04-08-2002, 10:14 PM

Quote:

I have a question about the Rings (Gandalf's and Elrond's.) At the end of "The Mirror of Galadriel," Galadriel tells Frodo because he is a Ring-bearer he can see what is hidden, and that is why he can see her Ring and Sam can't, but if Frodo had that ability, why couldn't he see Gandalf and Elrond's rings as well?

welcome to the barrow-downs, alien! great question...i suspect that in the case of elrond, frodo had not been too long in possession of the one ring when he met elrond in rivendell, so that his eyes were not as "keen" when he and the company were admitted into lorien. also, it may be possible that the 3 ringbearers had the power to keep the ring "hidden from sight". if i remember correctly, frodo did not immediately "perceive" nenya on galadriel's hand, and it is hinted that galadriel did "permit" frodo to see it by raising her arms towards the evening star, earendil. also, in the "the gray havens", we find the 3 ringbearers wearing all the rings in plain sight, and then it was perceived by all.

03-19-2002, 02:02 PM	#1
Nuinlambe Guest Posts: n/a	3 rings for the Elven Kings??????? Wait, but didn't Galadriel get one of the three rings? What is she doing, being a King? is confused [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

03-19-2002, 02:08 PM	#2
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Yes, Galadreil has one of the 3 Elven rings. Gandlaf and Elrond have the others. Galadriel used hers to maintain Lothlorien. That is why it faded after the One ring was destroyed and continues to fade after Galadriel left Middle Earth. Someone else is going to have to help me out with the names of the three, I always get them confused. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And by the way, Welcome to the Downs Nuinlambe. [ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: Raefindel ] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

03-19-2002, 02:53 PM	#5
muffin_goddess Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: uk Posts: 22	I think the word king is synonymous with ruler (of the monarchial variaty not the mesuring) __________________ I don't aski much... just worship me feel free to eat my subjects

03-19-2002, 04:59 PM	#8
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	LOL! I like the way you put that "Stuck with her" [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

03-19-2002, 07:36 PM	#9
Vilya Elathelas of Rivendell Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 27	about the names of the rings: Nenya 'belongs' to Galadriel. Narya is held by Gandalf. Vilya resides with Elrond. Hope that clears it up, if it ever needed clearing up in the first place. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes."

03-19-2002, 02:11 PM	#3
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	I would suggest that in this instant King is synomous with Lord, i'm sure there is some quote to futher this idea.

03-19-2002, 02:26 PM	#4
Orodhromeus Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 106	The 3 are Vilya, Nenya, Narya

03-19-2002, 02:56 PM	#6
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	lol muffin, your signature rocks.

03-19-2002, 04:53 PM	#7
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	Galadriel was a powerful ruler, and a queen...she was more powerful than her husband Celeborn the king anyway. So she got the ring and the cool mirror and he was stuck with, um, her.

03-31-2002, 12:39 PM	#10
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	And first it was like this: - Narya was with Cirdan, but when the istari came to ME, he gave it to Gandalf - Nenya was with Galadriel - Vilya was with Gil-Galad and given to Elrond after the Last Aliance __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

03-31-2002, 02:39 PM	#11
Lomelinde Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ha! Wouldn't you like to know? Posts: 80	Come on now, Celeborn played an important part too. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] If you read the book again (FOTR), you may be able to pick out the subtle hints that he is a little more down-to-(Middle)Earth elf than his wife and definitely more perceptive when it comes to weighty decisions. For example, he has the elves make boats for the Fellowship to give Aragorn more time to determine the next step. He is the one who perceives that the Company is heartsick and weary, and that Aragorn is undecided. So there. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Sorry that was way off the topic, but I had to defend one of the cooler elves in LOTR. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ The Dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark, drunk, blindfolded and hanging upside down from a tree.

03-31-2002, 03:38 PM	#12
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Well...don't read a chapter in my fan fic that will be up soon (gotta send it to BW! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]). You won't like what happens to Celeborn! Don't worry, I don't kill him! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Anyhoo...king=lord=ruler=monarch=head honcho=big cheese OK...definitely getting waaayyy tooo silly [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

03-31-2002, 05:29 PM	#13
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	Oh: if you click on "Edit Post" (the little hammer icon), one of the options is deleting a post if you accidentally post two times! Just to let you know...you can also actually EDIT the post, of course, but...haha... And I was going to say what everyone else was going to say: Galadriel counts as a king (also, "Three rings to the Elven kings and queens..." didn't fit). __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

03-31-2002, 10:32 PM	#14
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	What do the rings do? I gathered that Nenya acted like a preserver-and therefore, Lothlorien is unchanged by time. Vilya hid Imladris (What else did it do?). But I am a little uncertain of Narya's use. I heard something about it had the power to give strength and courage to its wearer. Is that right? ~~Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

04-01-2002, 07:35 AM	#16
Amarinth Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: realm of agonized volcanoes Posts: 113	so, to recapitulate: nenya, with galadriel, the ring of water, she used to create a microcosm of the blessed realm in ME -- lorien, where time flies by swiftly in order to ward off the sorrow and weariness of the undying elves. vilya, with elrond, the ring of air, he used for healing and rest and, as a pre-requisite, to keep rivendell secret from the enemy. narya, with gandalf, the ring of fire, given by cirdan to help him kindle the flame in their hearts and minds. there's an appropriate quote but don't have rotk with me. thalionyulma- i think there is a chapter in the unfinished tales which both depicts and negates amroth being the son of galadriel and celeborn. if i remember correctly, christopher tolkien thought that his dad meant the latter to stand. --------------------------------------------- every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse __________________ pity this busy monster,manunkind, not / -progress is a comfortable disease;/ your victim (death and life safely beyond) / plays with the bigness of his littleness ---ee cummings

04-02-2002, 08:49 AM	#17
Aragorn Husband of Arwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the West... Posts: 30	If Gandulf got one of the rings, why on the movie did it not show it? (or Elrond for that matter). Also, where does it says Elrond and Gandulf getting the rings? I don't remember it saying that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Merry Christmas Everyone!

04-02-2002, 03:02 PM	#18
alaklondewen Song of Seregon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Following the road less traveled Posts: 1,193	The location of the other two rings is hidden until the end of ROTK. That is in the books of course, but who knows how he'll do it in the movies. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ At last I understand why we have waited! This is the ending. Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all its fear pass away!

04-02-2002, 03:04 PM	#19
alaklondewen Song of Seregon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Following the road less traveled Posts: 1,193	Oh yeah! Welcome to the 'Downs, Aragorn Husband of Arwen. Enjoy your time here. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ At last I understand why we have waited! This is the ending. Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all its fear pass away!

04-03-2002, 04:11 AM	#20
Menewilwarin of Mirkwood Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: England (Earth) / Mirkwood (Middle Earth) Posts: 12	How do you people know all this stuff about the rings? I don't remember reading about it.... is it in LOTR or another book, like the silmarillion or something? Please help! I'm very confused... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ A Elbereth Gilthoniel o menel palan-diriel, le nallon si di'nguruthos! A tiro nin, Fanuilos!

04-03-2002, 09:47 AM	#21
alaklondewen Song of Seregon Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Following the road less traveled Posts: 1,193	Yes, there is a little in LotR, but a lot more in The Silmarillion. Read it, it's VERY informative. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ At last I understand why we have waited! This is the ending. Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all its fear pass away!

04-03-2002, 10:22 AM	#22
Nevtalathiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The depths of delusion Posts: 374	If the ring Gandalf has is the ring of fire, is that why he says all the stuff he does to the Balrog about beinga servant of the secret fire, or am I just making completely random connections? (or connexions as Tolkein spells it, anyone else ever noticed that?) __________________ "You can go a long way with a smile. You can go even further with a smile and a gun." - Al Capone

04-04-2002, 09:58 AM	#24
Nevtalathiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The depths of delusion Posts: 374	This is not about the three eleven rings, but what beame of the 7 rings given to the dwarf-lords? __________________ "You can go a long way with a smile. You can go even further with a smile and a gun." - Al Capone

04-05-2002, 03:20 AM	#27
Nevtalathiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The depths of delusion Posts: 374	Thank you, that all makes sense now [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "You can go a long way with a smile. You can go even further with a smile and a gun." - Al Capone

04-07-2002, 03:34 PM	#28
alien270 Guest Posts: n/a	I have a question about the Rings (Gandalf's and Elrond's.) At the end of "The Mirror of Galadriel," Galadriel tells Frodo because he is a Ring-bearer he can see what is hidden, and that is why he can see her Ring and Sam can't, but if Frodo had that ability, why couldn't he see Gandalf and Elrond's rings as well?

04-07-2002, 04:29 PM	#29
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	Hey! In the midst of a blonde moment, I had a moment of clarity and thought of this: Maybe the ring was originally given to Celeborn, but he gave it to Galadriel (for whatever reason: she does seem more powerful, maybe that was it). That is always possible. And they didn't show the rings in the movie because...well: they cut Glorfindel , so...that basically answers that question! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes