The Palantírs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ilúvatar · 03-18-2002, 04:22 PM

Did Fëanor create them? Since Gandalf says something like "they might even have been created by Fëanor in the dawn of Arda" (ok, that's nothing like what he said, but we have the same point). Of what I remember from the Silmarillion (it was a while since I read it the last time) I think there was some talk about the Númenorian Exile Kingdoms and the Palantírs. Well, the question: Who created the Palantírs? And if he did, when? After the Silmarils or before?

Fingolas · 03-18-2002, 07:19 PM

The Palantir were made by Feanor before the First Age. I think there were originally seven of them. Most were lost or possibly destroyed by the Third Age. By the time of the Fellowship there were at least three still around. One at Orthanc, being used by Saruman. One in Gondor, being used by Denethor. And one at Barad-dur, being used by Sauron.

I think that this is basically correct, (I’m working from memory here), if anyone else can confirm/correct me please do.

***Sharkû*** · 03-18-2002, 10:35 PM

What we have is Gandalf's 'informed guess', to which we can attribute whatever probability we like, and the following quote from HoME X, chapter VI, the earlier Quenta Silmarillion, that goes in the same direction:

"And other crystals he [Fëanor] made, wherein things far away could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the Eagles of Manwë."

CJRT himself linked this sentence to Gandalf's suspicion about the palantíri.
Since this is mentioned along with the other crystals and gems first found (and enhanced and created by the craftmanship of the Noldor), they would have been before the silmarilli.

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Sharku ]

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 03-19-2002, 12:31 AM

Fingolas, if I may add, I think there was a fourth remaining, but it looked only to the sea.

Fingolas · 03-19-2002, 09:34 AM

Maril,

I don’t remember that one. Please elaborate.

Bruce MacCulloch · 03-19-2002, 12:36 PM

Footnote in Lord of the Rings, Appendix A,I(iii):

Quote:

...The only Stone left in the North was the one in the Tower of Emyn Breaid that looks toward the Gulf of Lune. That was guarded by the Elves, and though we never knew it, it remained there, until Círdan put it aboard Elrond's ship when he left. But we are told that it was unlike the others and not in accord with them; it only looked to the Sea. Elendil set it there so that he could look back with "straight sight" and see Eressëa in the vanished West; but the bent seas below covered Númenor for ever.

The tower of Emyn Beraid was one of "the old towers beyond the western borders of the Shire" (Lord of the Rings, "The Shadow of the Past").
Also in "Of the Rings of Power" (Silmarillion)

Quote:

... Those of Elendil were set in towers upon Emyn Beraid, and upon Amon Sûl, and in the city of Annúminas. But those of his sons were at Minas Ithil and Minas Anor, and at Orthanc and in Osgiliath. ...
It is said that the towers of Emyn Beraid were not built indeed by the Exiles of Númenor, but were raised by Gil-galad for Elendil, his friend; and the Seeing Stone of Emyn Beraid was set in Elostirion, the tallest of the towers. Thither Elendil would repair, and thence he would gaze out over the sundering seas, when the yearning of exile was upon him; and it is believed that thus he would at whiles see far away even the Tower of Avallónë upon Eressëa, where the Masterstone abode, and yet abides. ...

Thingol · 03-19-2002, 04:47 PM

I also recall a mention somewhere that the master stone resided beyond the sea in Eressëa.

avarerniliel · 03-19-2002, 04:50 PM

Feanor made them. That much I know, but what exactly was he looking for with the palantiri? What was their original purpose?

Bruce MacCulloch · 03-19-2002, 09:38 PM

Quote:

I also recall a mention somewhere that the master stone resided beyond the sea in Eressëa.

Read the quotes in the post just above yours - it says it right there.

Quote:

Feanor made them. That much I know, but what exactly was he looking for with the palantiri? What was their original purpose?

From what can be seen of Fëanor's character, I would say that it is highly probable he made them just "because he could".

03-18-2002, 04:22 PM	#1
Ilúvatar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 12	The Palantírs Did Fëanor create them? Since Gandalf says something like "they might even have been created by Fëanor in the dawn of Arda" (ok, that's nothing like what he said, but we have the same point). Of what I remember from the Silmarillion (it was a while since I read it the last time) I think there was some talk about the Númenorian Exile Kingdoms and the Palantírs. Well, the question: Who created the Palantírs? And if he did, when? After the Silmarils or before? __________________ Just a thought: Why do people in movies etc. often run straight ahead when they're chased by a car for example. I know this has nothing to do with Tolkien, but it's an interesting thought.

03-18-2002, 07:19 PM	#2
Fingolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: behind that tree over there Posts: 32	The Palantir were made by Feanor before the First Age. I think there were originally seven of them. Most were lost or possibly destroyed by the Third Age. By the time of the Fellowship there were at least three still around. One at Orthanc, being used by Saruman. One in Gondor, being used by Denethor. And one at Barad-dur, being used by Sauron. I think that this is basically correct, (I’m working from memory here), if anyone else can confirm/correct me please do. __________________ It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

03-19-2002, 12:31 AM	#4
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Fingolas, if I may add, I think there was a fourth remaining, but it looked only to the sea. __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

03-19-2002, 09:34 AM	#5
Fingolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: behind that tree over there Posts: 32	Maril, I don’t remember that one. Please elaborate. __________________ It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

03-19-2002, 04:47 PM	#7
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	I also recall a mention somewhere that the master stone resided beyond the sea in Eressëa. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-18-2002, 10:35 PM	#3
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	What we have is Gandalf's 'informed guess', to which we can attribute whatever probability we like, and the following quote from HoME X, chapter VI, the earlier Quenta Silmarillion, that goes in the same direction: "And other crystals he [Fëanor] made, wherein things far away could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the Eagles of Manwë." CJRT himself linked this sentence to Gandalf's suspicion about the palantíri. Since this is mentioned along with the other crystals and gems first found (and enhanced and created by the craftmanship of the Noldor), they would have been before the silmarilli. [ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Sharku ]

03-19-2002, 04:50 PM	#8
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	Feanor made them. That much I know, but what exactly was he looking for with the palantiri? What was their original purpose?