A what if question.

[Boromir88]

This was mentioned in the thread "Oath and Oathfullfillment," about the oath Eorl made to go aid Gondor in a time a need, and in return he got Rohan. Theoden's big reason for riding to Minas Tirith was to keep this oath. Theoden and his men were a big part to Gondor's victory. So, I ask a what if question?

What if Sauron launched this massive attack when Fengel was king? Now, Fengel is a very much hated king of Rohan, he caused strife with his sons and marshals, he didn't care for allianceship, he just wanted more money. Do you think Fengel would have kept the oath like Theoden did? or don't you? Keep in mind, Fengel is already hated by his own people, and could face open rebellion if he would choose not to aid Gondor.

[Elianna]

Perhaps not Fengel himself would help, but Thengel, his son, was living in Gondor during most of his father's reign and so would want to bring aide from Rohan for Gondor. Thengel would proably hold enough sway over Rohan to lead many riders to the Steward's (Echthelion?) aide, even without Fengel's permission. Or if not, Thengel was probably friendly with Echthelion and could help the Gondorians in the persuasion of his father.

Does that make any sense?

[Boromir88]

It makes perfect sense , and I never even considered that. Good job, for bringing that up, I think it's very possible Thengel could persuade riders to come to Gondor's age, good thought!

[ohtatyaro]

It would not have happened, I mean, look at the Tale of Years:

2948
Théoden son of Thengel, King of Rohan, born.

2951
Sauron declares himself openly and gathers power in Mordor. He begins the rebuilding of Barad-dûr.

In times of Fengel, there was not 'full strengh' of Sauron yet. I mean, the massive attack was not possible, as he only begins to gather it when already Thengel is the King, as Fengel died in 2953.

[ohtatyaro]

I did not intend to kill this thread on the spot. I mean, it would not have happened, allright, but there might have been other possibilities too. So I bring it up

[HerenIstarion]

What if threads tend to die out all by themselves, or such is my personal opinion

As for what if, I suppose that Oath as an Oath mattered more to the ruling house than to the commoners. Thingol with the help of Eomer, Gandalf i.e., the whole lot of 'marketing managers' makes quite a PR campaign to convince his army to go. I don't intend to say they would not obey direct orders to muster and march on without speeches Thingol repeatedly inspires them on with, but it would have take a lot more of frunts and complaints. Indeed, what mere commoner knows about Gondor? A place far away, they are our friends, right, but what with wargs afoot in my own country, what the heck to go to war abroad? So riders need constantly be reminded about their own personal allegiance to Thingol's house.

Again, I do not intend to sound as if riders would break their loyalty and refuse to go without Thingol and the inspiring, but it resembles modern PR campaign allright.

So, even if, as rightly noted by Ohtatyaro, my compliments, it were possible for Sauron to launch massive atack before its ripe time, with two opposing leaders, it may have ended up in just another civil war, granted that Thengel would stand up to his father in the first place. Two PR campaings at a clash - 1. Let us be true to our word! 2. Let us protect our own home, and to hell with Gondor!. Bet you a dollar at the outcome?

I suppose, what with US president elections tomorrow, most of our members must be familiar with the principle

cheers

[Tuor of Gondolin]

There is another way to look at this. Rohan and Gondor came to each other's
aid several times. For example, in 2759 T.A. Gondor sent aid "both east and
west of the mountains." And politically, any rational leader of Gondor would
see that, irrespective of sentiment, Rohan would probably be next on the
list of an invader if Gondor was occupied. The Oath of Eorl then might be seen
as a useful reinforcement and rationalization of a national self-interest policy.

[Boromir88]

Ohta, that's ok, I understand what you mean. We'll just have to say theoretically, what if the War of the Ring, was during Fengel's reign, instead of Theoden's, we'll just say, what if Fengel was placed in Theoden's situation, instead.

Heren, I can't say anything about you post, other then, brilliant. I love how you tied it in with the election, there is a lot to politics we both know that, lol.

Tuor, that is also another possibility, nice job for bringing it up. Sort of like an allianceship, based on the fact, hey if you guys fall we are next, so we're going to help you.

[King of the North]

It is my belief that if Fengel were king of Rohan at this time he would have not gone to Gondor's aid in their moment of great strife. Theoden, being a great leader, still had to think about his decision; saying where was Gondor in our moment of trouble. If a credible and legitimate leader like Theoden had to ponder this decision, then a greedy and gluttonous leader such as Fengel would not by any means even consider helping his "ally." I believe the only way for him to be persuaded to come would be some giant reward of gold and riches. Still, this would not have convinced Fengel fully. His actions of tryanny make him seem to me like a coward.