Popularity of LOTR... How sad...

[Morgul Queen]

My school library is doing a LotR quiz. (I'm the judge, lol) It's based on the books, and many of the people at my school are now reading the books to find the answers. Of course, then there are those who think Isilder is an Elven language, and still o=more who are heard saying 'That wasn't in the movie!' But there are more reading the books, definately a good thing, no matter how you look at it

[Lalwendë]

Someone earlier made the point that if the films had not been made then the books would eventually have been forgotten about. I have to disagree - wasn't there a poll run by Waterstone's in 1999 (well before the films) to find the greatest books of the 20th century, in which LOTR was the run away winner?

I do love the films though - perhaps because I was so nervous about them being dreadful that I had a nice surprise when they were good. I accept that in the interests of 'dramatisation' some things had to be cut. After all, there are no films which are totally loyal to the books they are based on - or at least I can't think of any - and Peter Jackson did have all us fans to contend with if he cut too much out. But there is one point where I have noticed that fans of the books and fans of the films do disagree, and that's over the end of ROTK. Those on the movie 'side' (if you can call it that!) tend to say the film was 20 minutes too long, and any 'bookies' say no, it was not long enough! It would have been disgraceful to stop the film at Mount Doom!

I had an annoying moment a couple of weeks ago when I downloaded a New Line endorsed LOTR trivia quiz. A question asked what was the Elven name for the Grey Havens, the answer was given as Valinor...

Originally posted by Eorl of Rohan
I made this thread becuase I had an arguement with a so-called LOTR fan who insisted that Arwen was the spirit of the Ring. Ridiculous.

Damn. I couldn't even get that out of THE MOVIE. Weird.

[Fingolfin II]

I think this Arwen thing is because of Elrond saying that Arwen's fate is bound to the Ring to Aragorn, when he gave him Narsil. I read the books before the movies, but I still reckon the movies are fantastic, though I'm not too happy about some things.

[InklingElf]

oh goodness gracious -- where have I heard this "Arwen is the 'spirit' of the Ring," before? Well, often times at school by bespectacled movie fans (although I will not become a hypocrite by saying I am not), but more often from my 8-yr. old sister whose only purpose in watching LOTR in the first place is Liv Tyler and her arwen-ness.

Perhaps there was too much emphasis on Arwen -- and perhaps people are just too lazy to cite the true sources, etched in ink on hard/paper-bound paper...Eorl, I truly understand where you are coming from, however I do not think it fair to say that

The movie. has. ruined. the book.

It is unfair to Peter Jackson -- since he himself is a 'Tolkienologist' -- or whatever that may mean. Nevertheless, we cannot assume that even if a 'new-found love' for Prof. Tolkien's literature arises due to the movie(s), that everyone will start reading the books...or...am I babbling again?

In short, I too believe that people should not talk of things in which they have no authority; no knowledge of what they are talking about -- in this case of 'Arwen's spirit'. However, I am also not entitled to who is the 'authority' in these things. I cannot give it to them -- I know it becomes annoying at times.

Opinion is such a fascinating thing.

[Saraphim]

Sometimes, I just want to throw people off of cliffs.

And then I realize that the nearest one is miles away.

But I get so peeved at people who watch the movies and suddenly know everything. And even when they don't know something and I tell them why such and such happened, they say: "Oh, Yeah, I knew that. It's completly obvious."

Grrrrr.

"Wait. Legolas isn't a playboy who slides down giant elephant trunks and ancient staircases on shields in the book? Well then it must be wrong. What kind of moron wrote that?"

Grrrrr.

"Yes I'm a Lord of the Rings nerd! I know everything about it. But I only didn't get the end. Why did Frodo leave and where did he go?"

Grrrrr.

I've actually heard that last one. Sad.

[Saraphim]

Another thought. In about ten years, the avidity and popularity of LotR will die down. It's inevitable. Perhaps the children of former pop-culture-loving psudo-nerds will find the barely-skimmed books in thier attics. And then, a whole new generation of Tolkien-loving scholars will be born.

And then, New Line will remake the movies.

[Lhundulinwen]

It's inevitable. Perhaps the children of former pop-culture-loving psudo-nerds will find the barely-skimmed books in thier attics. And then, a whole new generation of Tolkien-loving scholars will be born.

A whole new generation of Tolkien readers coming from the movies originally! Isn't that a good thing? Even if their parents miss the point at least for now, maybe they'll pick the books back up. A new generation will find them laying around the house, and fall in love with them all over again. Then they'll go and do a quick internet search, and voila! a whole new crop of Barrowdowners! And in a lot of college classes, and some high school classes even, Tolkien is a required read, and many people fall in love with the books there, and then they have families, and they share the books with their children. So, really, this total immaturity from movie-goers will pass, and bring over a lot of LOTR nuts.

[Vanya]

Personaly, when I heard that LOTR was going to be filmed, I was very suspicious, but glad at the same time. In a way, I wanted more people to join this wanderfull place, even those who are too lazy to read.
I liked films, and understand that some cuts had to be made, but I think that he sacrificed some important moments to make time for completely unnecessary, even unapropriate ones. I can't forgive missing of Eowyn/Faramir story, or of joining of Dunedain along with Elrond's sons to Rohirim army.
But now, when LOTR is so popular, I feel like I lost something of mine. Now it's common to be Tolkin fan, but even easier to bo quasy Tolkien fan. Popularity was not a favour to Lotr, just the opposite (along with all the tacky trading items and abuse of characters in gay community - I don't have anything against gay people, just I don't belive that Tolkien had that in mind)
To conclude, I like films, I like meeting people like You all who truly love and understand Tolkien, but I hate commercialisation of it, and I miss the days when I felt ME was my personal place to hide.

[Etharius]

Guys, you haveto remember that the movies revealed Tolkien in an enourmous way.

I myself before the films came out was a Dungeons and Dragons fan, playing Baldurs Gate and having an interest in Warhammer. Suddenly, this strangely titles film came out called "The Lord of the Rings" and i thought to myself, "WOW, looks like a film on Baldurs Gate!".

Little did i know that i would become enveloped in Tolkiens huge world and love it more than any other game or story ive ever seen before.

I owe the films alot of credit!

[Frodo Baggins]

Ruined the book? Perhaps. I must say that I am one of the Die hards that the movie has brought in. Even though my dad had been trying to get me to read LOTR for years before the movie (and he holds all credit for introducing me) I did not begin to read until one week before FoTR came out.

Admittedly, I get quite annoyed with people who say that the book is "too long" or "That did not happen in the movie so the book is wrong" (I really want to slap them when I get that). Heck, I cannot bring up LoTR at school without hearing how someone wants to date Legolas! *groan* What really got me mad before Rotk came out was how people would tell me they did not want to read the book until the movie came out for fear of "Spoiling it" Trust me, I read the books twice even before TTT came out and nothing was spoiled.

In that sense, yes the book has been ruined. But maybe when the moviegoers and fangirls go away and the smoke clears, we can sit down, old and new die hards, and do just as we have always done.

[Etharius]

I agree with you totally Frodo Baggins.

[TheBladeThatWasBroken]

All the rants that I'm too lazy to type out in one thread!

Movie-fans annoy me, since most of them have never read the books, they see the characters exactly how they are in the movies.

"Damn! Aragorn is hella tyt! He should've just hacked off Frodo's head cos that midget is so annoying!"

Or, as mentioned before, the fangirls

"OMG, Legolas is like, so hot and so is Aragorn! Wouldn't it be great if there was some movie with Leggy/Aragorn slash?"

Where did "Leggy" come from anyway?

Then there's all the Movie > Books people like this:

[Bombadil]

haha ya, I have a bunch of friends who have seen the movie, and proclaim that "The Lord of the Rings" sucks. MOstly they do it to make me mad, lol. Not to mention some kid that, when i tlaked about Lord of the Rings, said "Oh man I know everything about that ****, man! I've seen the movies probably 30 times!" First i yawned at the fact that he was proud of his "30 times" then i asked him if he's read it...of course he sud no.

Andddd my favorite is people who have only seen the movie pronouncing "Aragorn" as "Aragon." IM done

[Isowen]

LOTR has become a popular book and many claim their devotion to it. We are not recognized anymore as Tolkien fans, only as trend followers, simply because everyone else has read the books and seen the movies. All that we can do now is wait until the "non-believers" find something else to do and then we can continue to stay true to our professer Tolkien.
Although, i also think that the movie has simply made the books more popular. Many lotr fans that I know, only read the books because they liked the films! wether that is ethical or not, I cannot say!

[Laitoste]

Really? The movie ruined the books? Because my books survived all three movies with no textual changes...I must be lucky!

Seriously, though, were the movies that bad? Are those people that annoying? The book hasn't been ruined, you just have some new folks to avoid. As has been stated multiple times before, both on this thread and elsewhere, the know-it-all annoying people will eventually leave (if some haven't already) and inhabit and drive another fandom crazy. But the books will remain the same. So relax!

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Lyta_Underhill

they no doubt brought in the new crop of die-hards, those whose life is irrevocably enriched by their exposure to Tolkien first through the movies and then through the books and perhaps on into the vortex of the entire Legendarium. Some will be assimilated, as the Borg might say, and we will be the richer for it.

Cheers!
Lyta

Indeed I would be one of those people...

A year before the movie came out

Me- hey what you reading?
Kid-LOTR
Me-look at how long that is it must be boring

one month after movie

halfway through TTT me- wow how could I be so ignorant this is great!

[Encaitare]

I don't think the movies ruined the books. As some people said, the movies were what made me want to read the books, and they opened up a whole world for me. Certainly the books are better (isn't that always the case?), but the movies are great as an interpretation of them. There are a great deal of things I wish had been put in the movie ( SCOURING OF THE SHIRE!!! ) but I'm not going to go ballistic over it.

Hopefully the rabid fangirls will soon evaporate and we'll be left clutching our copies of the books (and for some of us, the EE DVDs) and we shall all be in peace.

[Gelmir]

The scouring of the shire was in the galadreil's mirror so, it could be in the extended video or dvd! Also, there are toys of the mouth of sauron, so he could be in the extended dvd or video . OOOooOOoOOOooOooooooO.

[The Only Real Estel]

The. movie. has. ruined. the. book.

I can't agree with that, I've been debated with before on that topic, but never shown any real reasons why the movie ruined the book. First of all, I enjoy the fact that the movies have drawn more people to Tolkein's LotR-even drawn more people to read his books. There are those, of course, that will try to start up a ridiculous argument about how Arwen is 'the spirit of the Ring' or how you can't be a fan of LotR if you don't know who Elijah Wood is, but there are also countless people who read the books because of the movies & are now bigger fans of Tolkien's writings then you or me! If people bring up bad arguments they've based on the movies, I just ask them which came first-the book or the movie?-and rest my case on that.

In fact, LOTR was turned into a money-making

It is a little over-marketed at times, but there wouldn't be an opportunity for over-marketing unless Tolkien made great books for PJ to make into his movies (& he largely stuck with the books, too). And of course they had to have the idea of getting back the 300 million they spent on the movies, it'd be ridiculous if they never thought of that.

*raises an eyebrow* Now that I think of it, I was only able to buy LOTR only becuase the movie made it famous enough to import it into Korea

Good things come of it after all .

The movies are not carbon-copies of the books, God-forbid that there ever be a LotR series out that is (much as half of me would like to see it)-the movies are great in their own right, the books in their's- and neither has ever caused the other any serious damage that I have ever heard of.
Point is, the movies can't ruin the books for you in any way, shape, or form...unless you let them.

[Encaitare]

I hate to burst your happy little bubble, Gelmir, but I believe they never even did the Scouring of the Shire at all. *bursts into tears*

Unless it's a big secret that they're keeping hush-hush until the EE DVD comes out...

[Alchisiel]

Actually I believe that they showed the Shire being taken over not the Scouring of the Shire itself. So I hate to burst your little bubble, Encaitare. That's what Gelmir is referring to, I think.

[Alchisiel]

You know I've been thinking.....instead of bashing the movies I think we should be thankful that someone who is a Tolkien fan made these movies instead of "The Hollywood Machine" if you get my meaning.

I can see it now the part of Aragorn being played by Tom Cruise, Arwen played by Julia Roberts, Galadriel played by Meg Ryan, Tobey Macguire playing Frodo.......scary isn't it?

What I'm trying to get at is that if Hollywood had made the movies the characters that we all love probably would have been played by popular actors, and not the ones that were in the movies. Peter Jackson hired actors based on their acting ability not on if the stars were bankable or not as Hollywood usually does and that my friends is what we should be thankful for.

[ohtatyaro]

You know I've been thinking.....instead of bashing the movies I think we should be thankful that someone who is a Tolkien fan made these movies instead of "The Hollywood Machine" if you get my meaning

Yes, yes, yes!

Many things were done badly, but many things were just fascinating

[Encaitare]

Ouch... Tobey Maguire as Frodo? ::winces:: He's a good actor but..... no. It would be heinous. They'd make Gandalf say, "Remember Frodo, with great power comes great responsibility."

[Morsul the Dark]

hmm Tobey maguire as Frodo...wouldnt be too bad...

Tobey and Elijah look A LOT alike at least to me (oh and not buff spidey Tobey i mean Seabisquit Tobey)

[Lady Gamgee]

Well, for someone like me who never heard of LOTR until the movies came out, I think it's great. The movies introduced me to the books, which I'm now reading ... almost done with The Two Towers ... and I've truly enjoyed reading what I've read so far. There are those who could be called "trend followers", but rest assured, I am not one of them. I believe Tolkien to be very genuine, creative, & unique in his work. There is nothing wrong with Tolkien gaining TRUE new fans. But those that are true remain to be seen years down the road ... if they still love his work.

[Lady Gamgee]

BTW, I read The Hobbit before LOTR, and it's amazing what a difference that makes. All the books connect .... like one feeding off the other. You can't truly understand everything about LOTR if you don't read the Hobbit first.

[Laitoste]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Tobey and Elijah look A LOT alike at least to me (oh and not buff spidey Tobey i mean Seabisquit Tobey)

ahh...but "Seabiscuit" Tobey Macguire has red hair...he played Red Pollard. (I know what you mean, just had to add that )

[RadomRadagast]

Actually the movie hype got me interested in the books, because belive it or not I had never heard of them. So I read the hobbit and a good bit of the trilogy before even watching the movies. I think the books are better, although the movies are OK for movies.

[Lachwen]

Don't bash the movies too hard, Eorl. Lyta_Underhill has it right: the movies, despite their inaccuracies and hordes of screaming LOTR-geeks, have also brought around a new crowd of die-hards. Myself included. When I saw Fellowship of the Ring the first time, my total expreience with Tolkien was having read The Hobbit six years previously. Now, four years later, I am so very glad the movies came out, because they made me aware of a beautifully rich and complex world of literature. Had the movies not been made, I might still be ignorant of Tolkien's work. And that would be truly sad.

[InklingElf]

I think there are more pros in the coming of the movies than most people think -- I agree with you movies buffs. After all Jackson IS a Tolkien geek right? Who better to interpret it than one who's heart is invested in the books and perfecting it visually. Flaws will always be imminent but I can't imagine a better person for the job.

[Snowdog]

I agree with Eorl in alot of ways about some movie fans. I posted my take on Tolkien fans in this thread.

[turgon]

It is rather sad to come across a moviegoer ecstatic with the films only to watch them cringe when I suggest reading the books. When I try explaining the worlds that await or the wealth of literature. I am sometimes meant with a bored look and a nonsensical comment such as "reading bores me." How can one learn anything let alone soar thru the realms of imagination if they refuse to flex there wings

[Encaitare]

I understand... people are always saying "I can't even remember the last time I read a book" and meanwhile I'll be trying to get through three different books at once because I couldn't decide which to read first! They don't know what they're missing.