Civil War if Boromir survived?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

In The Dunedain thread there was a question about what would have happened if Boromir survived as ruling Steward.

There is a possible scenario for this. Boromir is severely wounded defending Merry and Pippin. The hobbits are carried away and about a dozen orcs are left with orders to finish Boromir off. As they're about to do so A and G and L arrive. Boromir tells them to save the hobbits and, being a macho guy, staggers back to Minas Tirith. He recuperates just as the war ends. He is conflicted about trying to take the Ring and wanting the Stewardship and Denethor's approval. What does he do? What happens? Boromir would be at least as popular as his brother with the people, Faramir, Imrahil and the Rohirrim might be reluctant to intervene. On the other hand Aragorn got the allegiance of the Army of the Dead, saved South Gondor and led the Army of the West against Mordor.

P.S. Is there some way I can get more print across the lines. I keep getting a
lot of varying long and short lines when messages are posted.

[Lily Bracegirdle]

I think Boromir would have accepted Aragorn as king. The problem would be that Denethor would not have despaired if Boromir lived and so he too would have been alive at the end of the War. I don't think Denethor would have willingly given up power to Aragorn if he had lived. I do think he would have been forced out, though, and I don't think Boromir or Faramir would have supported their father against Aragorn.

-Lily

[Zebedee]

I don't think Denethor could raise an army from Gondor to fight against Aragorn.

Supposing, that Faramir wouldn't try to stick it out with Denethor in order to gain the respect he's always wanted from Dear Old Daddy (and I don't think Boromir would betray Aragorn after being saved by him), I can't see how a civil war would be possible. Feeling both sides closing in on his rule, being supported by neither of his sons against Aragorn's claim to the throne, I also wouldn't be suprised if Denethor would commit suicide in this scenario as well.

[Snowdog]

Lets look at it from an earlier deviating point. Say Faramir was sent to Rivendell and Boromir stayed in Gondor. The possibilities widen here because there would be a good chance that Faramir wouldn't of tried to take the Ring from Frodo. But lets say Faramir met his death along the way defending the Hobbits, and later you would have Denethor and Boromir standing when Aragorn comes. Would Boromir stand with his father or see Aragorn for what he was and pledge allegience to him?

So many possibilities.....

[Lily Bracegirdle]

I think Frodo would have met Boromir in Ithilien, Boromir would have taken the Ring to Denethor, and the War would have been lost.

-Lily

[Boromir88]

Snowdog:

The possibilities widen here because there would be a good chance that Faramir wouldn't of tried to take the Ring from Frodo.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, this is my view. Faramir was able to refuse the ring for a lot of reasons in my mind, he was wiser, he learned from Boromir's mistake...etc. But, we have Faramir who tells Frodo "I don't want to see it, I don't want to hear about it, if it was lying on the road I wouldn't stop to pick it up." I believe if Faramir was thrown into the Council, instead of Boromir, he would have succumbed to it, just like Boromir. Boromir had to live for months, travelling with this little hobbit, who he thinks shouldn't have the ring, and it eats away at him, he has full knowledge about the ring, and he have to live with it for months, finally he breaks. Faramir, only a matter of days he is with the ring, plus he doesn't get to see it the way Boromir does, Boromir saw the ring at the Council, and it just consumed his mind, Faramir never saw it, he said he doesn't wish to see it, and never wants to see it. So, I think if he was stuck in Boromir's situation he too would have fallen to the ring, but that's just my opinion.

Lily:

I think Frodo would have met Boromir in Ithilien, Boromir would have taken the Ring to Denethor, and the War would have been lost.

You could argue that if it wasn't for Boromir trying to take the ring back at Amon Hen, the War would have been lost. If Boromir hadn't of flipped out on Frodo, Frodo would have never realized how the ring was effecting the Fellowship. Boromir was only the first of the Fellowship to succumb to the ring, and if Frodo stayed with the Fellowship, others would have fallen next. Eventually, everyone would have fallen. Boromir made Frodo realize the ring was tearing the Fellowship apart, and he had to leave before other members became a "Boromir."

[Zebedee]

I do not think Faramir would have taken the ring had he been in Rivendale. In Ithalian, he had the chance to take it, he could have gotten his father's respect, but he turned it down. I think that he would be able to resist, at least longer than his brother did.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Interesting speculation of whether Faramir would have resisted longer then
Boromir. On the one hand, one reason daddy didn't take to Faramir was that
he was "a wizard's pupil." He was more of a scholar and generally a reluctant
warrior (to some extent perhaps JRRT patterned him after himself?), while
Boromir was more instinctive and concerned with the practical. But then again,
Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond , and Aragorn were all afraid to take the ring
(Gandalf, it would seem, even for a brief time) so perhaps an
intellectualizing approach would be an ineffective curb on the ring's power to
corrupt. Then again, Aragorn and Gandalf were obviously in close proximity to
the ring all the way down to Moria and beyond without being overtly tempted.

Might Boromir have had a different ring view if he had known of Isildur's
repentence of taking the ring at The Gladden Fields?

Hmm. I guess I haven't a definitive view on B vs. F ring resistance.

[Boromir88]

Tuor, I think even if Boromir was fully aware of the ring, and what had happened to Isildur, he still would have tried to take it. Boromir's sole purpose in taking the ring was to save Gondor, he thought it would save Gondor, and he thought it wouldn't be able to corrupt a righteous person like himself or a free lord, for example Imrahil.

[Nimrodel_9]

Say Faramir was sent to Rivendell and Boromir stayed in Gondor.

Let`s go back to that. (correct me if I`m wrong.) In TTT EE, Peter Jackson put in a scene where Denethor said that Elrond had called for a council and that Boromir must go to it. This did not happen in the book. Boromir had been wandering in the wild for many days, and after losing his horse, he stumbled upon Rivendell. After hearing there was going to be a council, he stayed to represent Gondor, and the race of Men. Anyway, say it was Faramir that came to Rivendell.
I believe that (even if he did see the ring) he would have been able to resist its power longer. As Tuor of Gondolin said, he was "a wizards pupil". In my view I believe that Faramir was more wise than Boromir, and thus would most likely understand the power of the ring better. Also he was friends with Gandalf and would probably be more on his side than Boromir was. Seeing that Gandalf wanted Frodo to be the only one to have the ring, and that no one else could carry it, he would have focused more on the protection of Frodo. Not on taking the ring, and giving it to his father, no matter how much he wanted his respect. I would think that he would rather have the respect of Gandalf. Did any of that make sense?

[Boromir88]

Nimrodel, yes, that does make sense, I have a different view on the matter, but you bring up good points and your post does make sense, that's why I post here at the bd.com, to hear and weigh other's opinions.

Yes, Faramir was much wiser then Boromir, and was more aware of the ring, plus the fact being closer to Gandalf and being a "wizard's pupil" helps out a lot. But, I personally still think, Faramir's "human" self would have caused him too, to fold and try to take the ring, if he was stuck in Boromir's position, of having to travel with the ringbearer for months. Faramir never saw the ring like Boromir did, and he wasn't with the ringbearer as long as Boromir, ok so he's able to hold off his temptation for a few days, I think his human self would have stepped in and taken it just like Boromir, but that's my view.

[The Saucepan Man]

Faramir would have been more prepared to listen to the counsels of the wise than Boromir was. And, spiritually, he seems to have been stronger. Those qualities would no doubt have helped him resist the Ring's temptation for longer than his brother did. But I agree with Boromir88. He would have succumbed eventually, and probably sooner than any other member of the Fellowship.

[Lily Bracegirdle]

I think Faramir would definitely have held out longer than Boromir, but would have eventually tried to take the Ring. However, I don't think his motives would have been the same. Boromir wanted the Ring to save Gondor. Faramir knew that the Ring was too evil and corrupting to take home. I think given Faramir's soft heart and pity for Frodo he would have tried to take the Ring "to spare Frodo."

Faramir: "Give me the Ring! It's too much of a burden for you. I'll take it to Mount Doom for you!"

Of course, once it was in his hand, the Ring would have had him take it directly to Sauron.

I disagree with the idea that Faramir would have been tempted to take the Ring to Denethor. The whole "wanting Dad's love" thing was purely movie tripe. Yes, Faramir wanted Denethor's respect, but for the things he was already doing. He didn't do things in order to get that respect.

Book Faramir: "I did the right thing, why don't you respect me?"
Movie Faramir: "What dumb thing shall I do to earn a crumb of affection?"

-Lily

[Boromir88]

Oh yes, Spm and lily, that it's definately fair to say Faramir would have held off longer, and resisted long then his brother.

[davem]

There's no reason to believe Faramir would have ever succumbed to the Ring. The Ring tempts the individual, but it's only in the desire for what it can offer or in using it that one is overcome by it. Frodo's first reaction to it is to give it away to Gandalf, then later to Galadriel. Gandalf refuses it, so does Galadriel. Aragorn is never tempted by it. In the Council of Elrond, when its suggested that Tom Bombadil should be given the Ring no-one suggests that there is ever a danger that he or Goldberry would be seduced by it - the fear is that he would simply throw it away.

Faramir considers himself to be a Numenorean: he probably takes what Sauron did to Numenor personally. For him, to take the Ring would be the greatest betrayal imaginable - he would be betraying his bloodline, his culture, his whole value system. This is the opposite of Boromir's case, & Denethor's. Their desire is victory over Sauron, Faramir's isn't:

I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin & I alone could save her so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good & my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo'....

'For myself,' said Faramir, 'I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, & the Silver Crown return, & Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high & fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens: not a mistress of many slaves, nay, not even a kind mistress of willing slaves. War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but i do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they seek to defend: the city of the men of Numenor; & I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, & her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may fear the dignity of a man, old & wise.'

I think we have to get away from this idea that the Ring inevitably corrupts anyone who comes into its vicinity. There is never, as far as I'm aware, any suggestion that Elrond wants it, or Legolas or Gimli, or any of the Hobbits. All it can do is offer the temptation of fulfilling one's desires, yet if one's desires are not fulfillable by the Ring how can it tempt them. Faramir simply doesn't want what the Ring could offer. In order for him to be tempted by it he would have to be so broken that he became a different person.

'Even were I such a man as to desire this thing...' he says to Frodo, impying that there are such men as will desire it & such men as won't. The Ring has to have something to latch onto, & that something is a specific kind of desire. This is not to imply that Faramir is a perfect, saintly being, merely that his desires cannot be fulfilled by the Ring. Aragorn's 'desires', focussed on Arwen & fulfilling his destiny to rule, are not the kind that the Ring could fulfil, neither are Faramir's. The danger is that the Ring will get into the wrong hands, either Sauron's or someone corruptible - that's why it has to be destroyed, not that anyone who comes into contact with it will be corrupted by it.

Boromir, five years the elder, beloved by his father, was like him in face & pride, but in little else. Rather he was a man after the sort of King Earnur of old, taking no wife & delighting chiefly in arms; fearless & strong, but caring little for lore, save the tales of old battles. Faramir the younger was like him in looks but otherwise in mind. He read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he read moved him sooner to pity than to scorn. He was gentle in bearing, & a lover of lore & music, & therefore by many in those days his courage was judged less than his brother's. But it was not so, except that he did not seek glory in danger without a purpose. ...

It did not seem possible to Faramir that anyone on Gondor could rival Boromir heir of Denethor, Captain of the White Tower; & of like mind was Boromir (now who says Tolkien didn't do irony!). Yet it proved otherwise at the test. (Appendix A)

I can't see anyway that the Ring could have tempted him by offering to fulfil any of his desires.

Simply, one can reject what the Ring offers & be free of the desire for it, because in Tolkien's universe its not simply will, but grace which gives one the strength to resist it. Not everyone is tempted by it. Faramir is neither a fool nor a hypocrite in my reading. In short, it tempts those who can be tempted by it, & overcomes those so broken by suffering that they are no longer themselves. If the only measure Sauron knows is desire for power & control, then that is all the Ring could offer. Sam can reject its offers easily enough, because they aren't what he wants, so can Aragorn & the others.

I caould see civil war errupting if either Denethor or Boromir had survived - if Denethor had survived because Aragorn had no right to the Kingship, & Boromir because he desired power & had been brought up to give orders, not to take them.

Too many people simply are not seduced by the Ring for it to be the case that simply to be in it's vicinity is inevitably corrupting. One makes a moral choice. Its even possible that Faramir would have succeeded in taking the Ring to the fire. Apart from Sam, i think he would be the one most likely to pass the test. Sauron doesn't fear Aragorn because of his prowess, but because he is a Numenorean, & so is Faramir. Sauron fears the Numenoreans.

Some people can't be corrupted - Sam can't, Aragorn can't, & neither, it seems to me, can Faramir. Sadly, we see Frodo can - which is why his story is a tragedy.

Your Honour, the defence rests.

[Boromir88]

Davem, I happen to disagree with you on many points, but that's why I'm here at the downs, to get other peoples view, here's my argument on some of your points...

Some people can't be corrupted - Sam can't, Aragorn can't, & neither, it seems to me, can Faramir. Sadly, we see Frodo can - which is why his story is a tragedy.

First, I think we should exclude Sam, yes, Sam did throw away the temptations, but he was tempted on being "Samwise the brave" and he was able to over come them, but to say he, was totally "uncorruptable" by the ring, I would not agree. Give it some time, Sam would have been corrupted, in my view, luckily he was able to past the test, and able only had one chance of passing that test, but that doesn't mean he was "uncorruptable."

Aragorn, my only case with him, was after the death of Boromir, he was in utter catastrophe. He was doubting his decisions he made, and wish he never had the burden of "leader" put on him, if Frodo stayed in the company, who knows what he would have done, but that is a "big if" so I do agree that Aragorn wasn't corruptable by the ring.

Your case you've made with Faramir is very strong, my personal opinion would be if Faramir and Boromir had switched, and Faramir went with the Fellowship, he still would have taken it and here is why...

Faramir had heard about what happened to Boromir, through Frodo's account. Through the story of Boromir trying to take the ring from him. And I think a big reason why Faramir was able to deny the ring, was because he learned from Boromir's mistake. As you have already quoted, Faramir holds Boromir higher then any man in Gondor, none in Gondor at this time could match him, atleast through Faramir's eyes. Then he learns, he tries to take this ring, and look what happens, he dies. Faramir seeing, and realizing, that the brother he holds above all else died because of the ring, makes him able to deny it so strongly. Because, Faramir realizes, heck if the ring leads to the end of the best in Gondor, Boromir, it would be hopeless for me to take it, and that is why I think Faramir was able to so "strongly" deny the ring. And that is the biggest reason, Faramir learning from the mistake of Boromir. So, if they had switched places I think Faramir still would have fallen, again thats just my opinion.

There is never, as far as I'm aware, any suggestion that Elrond wants it,

There is this quote from letters, that would suggest Elrond was tempted by the ring, just like Galadriel.

In the "Mirror of Galadriel", it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. IF so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond.

This states, if Galadriel saw herself taking the ring and supplanting Sauron (which we can see from the chapter "Mirror in Galadriel" when she comes out and says she's desired it). This just says, if Galadriel did, then so did the other 3 ringbearers (Elrond and Gandalf), and it even comes out to say ESPECIALLY Elrond. So, Elrond was tempted, like Galadriel, but of course he didn't let it get in his way.

I think we have to get away from this idea that the Ring inevitably corrupts anyone who comes into its vicinity.

That I agree with, the ring just doesn't automatically corrupt anyone around it, but, that doesn't mean they aren't corruptable, everyone would be corrupted (with the exclusion on Tom, who has already said Tom would not care for such things). Now, being around the ring, and maybe even wielding the ring at one time, there are those strong enough to refuse the temptation (Sam, Gandalf, Galadriel...etc), but it's made clear Galadriel, if in posession of the ring, would desire it to overthrow Sauron, and with Gandalf it was said he wanted to use it to do good things, create a lot of good, but by doing that, it would only be destruction, or total chaos. Sam, had temptation, but was able to quickly cast them away. So, I think if anyone was stuck in Frodo's position of having to destroy the ring (with the excluse of Tom), they too wouldn't have been able to do it. You are right in saying, there are those that can see the ring (Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel) some of the wiser ones, and are able to deny it and aren't affected by it, but if they were to wield it, they would have been corrupted.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by davem

I can't see anyway that the Ring could have tempted him by offering to fulfil any of his desires.

Davem, I would most certainly disagree with this premise in your argument. The Ring works by finding that which the individual desires and offering it to them. With Galadriel it was the desire to establish a realm and rule over others. With Boromir, it was his desire to defend Gondor and meet Sauron in battle. With Gollum, it was secretive, inquisitive nature and love of "precious" things. Gandalf accepts that he would be corrupted by it, since it would appeal to his desire to do good. Even Sam is tempted by the idea of a great garden covering the poisonous plains of Mordor. So, I think that there is no individual desire, however pure, that the Ring would not be able to "work on". Faramir is no exception here, and neither is Aragorn.

Now, Boromir88 brings up an important distinction here. There is a difference between becoming corrupted by the Ring through merely being within its vicinity and succumbing to it as Ringbearer. But, since we have examples of those that succumbed through being within its vicinity, it is clear that the Ring's influence, its power to corrupt, extends beyond simply the individual who happens to be bearing it at any given time. I hold with the belief (suggested by Tokien in his Letters) that no one (with the exception of Bombadil, who is a special case) would have been able willingly to destroy the Ring. The tragedy of Frodo (and his heroism) lies, for me, in the fact that he blames himself for not being able to do something that no other person would have been able to do. If someone else could have done what Frodo couldn't, it would severely diminish Frodo's character in my eyes.

Now, if one accepts (as I do) that no one would have been able to destroy the Ring voluntarily, then it follows that everyone would ultimately have been corruptible (and corrupted) as its bearer. There is evidence for this in Gandalf's refusal to bear it and in Galadriel's admission that, had she failed the "test", she would have become a Queen terrible to behold, a source of despair. Sam is able to give it up, but his time as Ringbearer was short. Had he borne it all the way from the Shire, I have no doubt that he would have found it a lot more difficult, if not impossible, to relinquish it.

Now, as I have said, the Ring's influence clearly extends beyond its immediate bearer. I do not believe that its influence on its bearer and its influence on those around it was any different save, perhaps, in strength. So, on that assumption, it follows from what I have said above that, given sufficient exposure, anyone within the vicinity of the Ring would ultimately have succumbed to it. Some would hold out longer than others. Some would no doubt hold out for a very long time indeed. But everyone without exception (well, one exception as noted above) was vulnerable to it. Had the Fellowship not broken when it did, I am sure that others would have felt its pull. It had no need to work on anyone else while it held Boromir within its power. But with him gone, I am sure that it would have chosen another "victim", perhaps even Aragorn himself, given his ancestry and clear purpose (ie desire). Had Faramir been there in Boromir's place, he would have been a suitable alternative for the Ring's wiles.

So, I do not see Faramir as uncorruptible at all, despite what he says to Frodo at Henneth Annun (and I think that there is much sense in what Boromir88 says in Faramir having "learned his lesson, giving him even greater resources to resist it). As I said before, I believe that he would have held out longer than his brother. But I have no doubt that Faramir would have succumbed eventually, given sufficient exposure to the Ring's focused influence.

[davem]

It is far more powerful than I ever dared to think at first, so powerful that in the end it would overcome anyone of mortal race who possessed it. It would possess him' (The Shadow of the Past)

Of course, we're back to the Manichaean/Boethian thing - is the Ring an external power of evil, which can overcome anyone simply by its overwhelming power, or is it something which brings out the innate 'evil' tendencies in the individual?

I think the key is in Gandalf's statement about 'possession'. It 'posesses' anyone who 'possesses' it. But what does 'possession' imply in this instance - simply having it?

Chambers dictionary gives the following definitions of 'possess':

to have or hold as owner, ..to seize..to control..to be master of...to dominate the mind of

[QUOTE=Boromir88]

Quote:In the "Mirror of Galadriel", it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. IF so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond.[/QUOTE


This states, if Galadriel saw herself taking the ring and supplanting Sauron (which we can see from the chapter "Mirror in Galadriel" when she comes out and says she's desired it). This just says, if Galadriel did, then so did the other 3 ringbearers (Elrond and Gandalf), and it even comes out to say ESPECIALLY Elrond. So, Elrond was tempted, like Galadriel, but of course he didn't let it get in his way.

Well, that merely says to me that Elrond, like Gandalf & Galdadriel, 'concieved of themselves as capable of using it' - but so did pretty much everyone who came into contact with it. But knowing you can do something is not the same as being tempted to do it, & its certainly not the same as being 'possessed' by the idea.

Sam was tempted by the Ring, but temptation is merely the making of an offer - the Ring showed Sam what it could offer him, he weighed the offer up, & dismissed it as ridiculous. So did Galadriel. Temptation is not really relevant in this context; what is relevant is the individual's reaction to the temptation - some are able to dismiss the temptation out of hand, because they find what's offered to be silly (Sam) or morally wrong (Gandalf, Galadriel, Faramir).

Basically, none of them desired to 'possess' the Ring, so it could not 'possess' them. I think this is why some find Faramir a two dimensional character, either stupid or too good to be true. But this is only the case if the Ring is an overpowering external source that no-one can resist or reject, & while Tolkien, in letters written after the event, may seem to imply that, it does not come across so in the book. In the book there are many characters who are simply not tempted by it, or if they are, are able to dismiss the temptation out of hand.

Why? Well, it seems that the ones who can reject it are the ones with spiritual values & goals which are in direct opposition to what the Ring seems to offer. Simply, the ring can offer nothing to Aragorn, Faramir, Elrond or Sam that they would actually want - they have no desire to 'possess' it. Others are more sorely tempted, because it perhaps could offer a solution to their problems - Galadriel's focus is on defeating Sauron but not really on anything beyond that, & the Ring could do that for her. Gandalf's mission is to defeat Sauron also, so he is tempted, but Aragorn, Faramir, & Sam in his own way, wish for other things. They all want something which the Ring not only cannot give them, but which possessing it would actually put at risk. They don't want anything it can offer. Sam, for instance, may desire to see Mordor turned into a garden, but he doesn't actually want to be Samwise the Strong.

My position is, I suppose, the Boethian one - I don't believe the Ring is an external force of evil so powerful it can & will inevitably corrupt anyone - some will have no desire to possess it, so it will have nothing to work on - it may tempt them, but the temtation will not be seductive enough, so it will never get the chance to possess them.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by davem

Of course, we're back to the Manichaean/Boethian thing - is the Ring an external power of evil, which can overcome anyone simply by its overwhelming power, or is it something which brings out the innate 'evil' tendencies in the individual?

I am not sure that seeing everyone as being vulnerable to the Ring requires one to firmly take either one view or the other on this issue. One might see the Ring as an external power which is able to corrupt anyone regardless of their virtue. But equally, one can view it as every individual, regardless of their virtue, being vulnerable to it as a result of their being a part of "Arda marred". If Gandalf and Saruman, Maia who came into being prior to the marring of Arda, were vulnerable to temptation, I fail to see how Aragorn, Faramir and Sam could somehow be immune to it.

Originally Posted by davem

Why? Well, it seems that the ones who can reject it are the ones with spiritual values & goals which are in direct opposition to what the Ring seems to offer. Simply, the ring can offer nothing to Aragorn, Faramir, Elrond or Sam that they would actually want - they have no desire to 'possess' it.

But aren't Gandalf's spiritual values and goals also in opposition to eveything that the Ring has to offer? His raison d'etre (at least within Middle-earth) is to defeat Sauron and he knows that this can only truly be accomplished through the destruction of the Ring. Yet he considers himself to be vulnerable to it. Aragorn's purpose too is in direct opposition to that of Sauron. If it is within contemplation that Gandalf would be tempted to use the Ring to acheive his goal, then I don't see how it cannot be within contemplation that Aragorn would also be tempted to use the Ring to achieve his purpose. The same goes for Faramir. Like his brother, he is opposed to Sauron. The difference between them is that he recognises that such opposition is best pursued through methods other than strength of arms alone. But the Ring could still tempt him by offering him the possibility of defeating Sauron, although the means by which that was to be acheived might be different from those which it offered Boromir. As for Sam, well clearly the Ring does have something to offer him because it does indeed offer it to him. He is tempted, but is able to overcome temptation both through the strength of his will, but also because his exposure to it was limited.

My position is that everyone was vulnerable to the Ring. It had something to offer everyone (because eveyone has desires and goals). The difference between characters like Boromir and Smeagol on the one hand and Faramir, Aragorn and Sam on the other is that they have the virtue and strength of will to resist it for longer, and therefore are able to overcome their moments of temptation. But the more prolonged their exposure, the less able they would be to resist it.

Otherwise, why was Frodo chosen to bear the Ring and not Sam?

[davem]

Originally Posted by SpM

Otherwise, why was Frodo chosen to bear the Ring and not Sam?

Ask Eru.

As for why Aragorn & Faramir would never be tempted by the Ring, even in the last resort, well, the short answer is Numenor.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by davem

Ask Eru.

Precisely! I am assuming that He knew best.

As for why Aragorn & Faramir would never be tempted by the Ring, even in the last resort, well, the short answer is Numenor.

Then again, the Numenoreans, even those of the Faithful, don't exactly have a brilliant track record in these matters.