Eowyn, Eomer.....Their Lifespans?

[yavanna II]

The Rohirrim were the Twilight Men, the second "class" men as I understand it. Now Eowyn's grandma was a descendant of Numenor, right? The Morwen of Dol Something? i can't remember....

Now could it be possible that Eowyn, Eomer & other descendants of Morwen to at least have longer lifespans than most Rohirrim?

Like, the ordinary Rohirrim span is around 80, the Gondorians around 150-200. Could it be possible that Eowyn or Eomer received at least 100 years of age?

[Boromir88]

Morwen of Lossarnach is what you are thinking of, Forlong was the lord of Lossarnach during the Siege of Minas Tirith.

As for the age difference. I thought the men of Rohan could live up to around 100 years old, I mean you have Aldor the old who reigned for 75 years live close to 100, Eomer was next reigned 65 years and lived into the 90s. Then if you look at some other kings their age ranges from around 90-100, not including the ones who died by getting slain in battle...etc. So maybe 80 is a little too young I would raise it to atleast 90, but that's my personal opinion.

Where as the people of Gondor, I would think 150-200 is too much. They were able to live into the 120's and the people of Dol Amroth maybe a few years more, since they have elven and Numenorean blood. If you look at Faramir he lived to be 120 and having Numenorean blood they would live longer then the Rohirrim. In the Early years of Gondor the men could live to be 200 but not in the recent years or even in Morwen's years. 110-120 is the age for most people of Gondor.

Maybe it did make their descendants, Theoden (can't really tell since he died in battle) or Theodwyn who got sick after giving birth, but maybe it effected Eomer and Eowyn. If it did it wouldn't be by much maybe a few years if that.

Also another thing we have to look at, Galador, founder of Dol Amroth. Had children with Mithrellas, an elf, but that did not make their descendants half-elves, so age between races doesn't work like ok she's 120 hes 90, their descendants now having a bit of numenorean blood will live longer. Age is really confusing and I'm not sure if I totally figured it out yet.

[Mithalwen]

I haven't got the exact dates on me but I am pretty sure the Lords of Dol Amroth lived to be about 100. And I think Beregond tells Pippin that in Gondor at that time it was rare to find a man of 80 who was still hale unless he belonged to a purer blooded house. The lords of the Rohirrim might have slightly longer life expectancy than their people due to intermarriage with noble Gondorian families ...

However Faramir has an exceptionally long life even allowing for his "pure" lineage
and, as I have said in another thread, my theory is that may be a little of the Numenorean grace was extended to him for his role in the downfall of Sauron ... maybe this principle could be extended to Eowyn and Eomer ... though if I remember rightly Eomer's life was long but not freakishly so....

[Boromir88]

Mithalwen, that was a good point you brought up, and I did find the quote you are talking about. We know Faramir and Denethor were of purer Numenorean blood, I mean Faramir did live to be 120. Denethor at 88 was very "hale" as he wore a full coat of mail and a sword still, so if he hadn't of gone mad probably could have lived much longer. A thing that I forgot to mention was most men of Gondor were far from a "purer blood" for in the beginning Gondor had a much larger population then that of Arnor.

[Mithalwen]

I think quite a lot of thes points came up in Osse's thread "The Landing of Elendil"...

[Boromir88]

I mean the really tricky stuff about age is you really never know. If you look in the charts of Peoples, the 3 stewards before Denethor did not reach 100, but does that mean if Denethor hadn't of gone crazy he wouldn't of reached 100. No because before that, it would range maybe under 100, to 100, or into the 110's, the first ruling steward Mardil was 120, then we know Faramir is also 120. So it's just really one of those mysteries, sort of why do we have people who are done at 75, but there are those that can live to be 100?

The whole think about the half-elven is another tricky concept. The point about Galador and Mithrellas, their children, are in blood "half-elven" but they don't have that half-elven choice of being mortal or immortal. As explained with Earendil and Elwing, Manwe is the one who puts that "choice" on people, it has nothing to do with their lineage. Whether one parent is elven the other is mortal, by blood you could be half-elves, but Manwe puts the "choice" on people, like Earendil and Elwing's sons, Elrond and Elros.

[Mithalwen]

The lifespans would have dwindled since the day of the first steward........ Actually the person I feel sorry for is Eldarion .... unless there were a few longlived Dunedain women around if he was going to match his father's span of 200 ...he would have to either marry late or face a long widowhood...

[Boromir88]

I would be very shocked if Eldarion reached even close to Aragorn's age. Even at this time Aragorn was old amongst the Dunedain. I also think it's funny how we are the only people responding on this thread lol.

[Mithalwen]

Yes but with an Elvish Mummy you would expect a reasonable innings.... yes .... does no one else care? LOL

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Whether one parent is elven the other is mortal, by blood you could be half-elves, but Manwe puts the "choice" on people, like Earendil and Elwing's sons, Elrond and Elros. (Boromir88)

To elaborate on this: Manwë (under consultation from Eru) gave them a choice, because Elf-Man offsprings are mortal - yes, Dior is mortal - and are banned from stepping into the Undying Lands. Mandos raised the question himself, and Manwë gave the choice as an answer to his question - frankly, I have no idea what would happen had Eärendil or Elwing chosen to be of the Atani. But they didn't.

The choice was extended to their children, and their children alone, because of some reward. Since I don't have the books with me, I forgot the right reason. But there.

Oh, and hope this helps. It's about the Rohirrim and the Númenórean blood.

[Osse]

Mithalwen: "Yes but with an Elvish Mummy..."

I was unaware that the Elves were into mumification! That adds a completely new skew to their religious beliefs... :P

The question of Eldarion's lifespan is quite interesting - would Arwen's potency be passed on? As the choice was for only the children of Elrond, would any blood related long-life have been passed on? My guess is probably not in Eldarion's case. The gift of the Choice was given only to two the Twins (and in Elrond's case, passed on to his descendants). I do not believe that Eldarion would have inherited the grace that was brought by Arwen's choice. He would have lived a lifespan normal to that of the Dunedain, that is, somewhere close to Aragorn's.

Sadly, there is no reference in the texts to supplement my disbelief, nor is there any to form an alternate theory on.

[Essex]

As Boromir stated, eomer reigned into his 90's. Looking at the tale of the years and counting back from when Eomer died (working out the differences from the shire calender) it works out he died at the fairly decent age of 93.

Not too old, but a fairly good innings. Whether this has anything to do with numenorian blood I'm not sure.

PS Unfortunately, I do not know the date of Eowyn's death. If she lived into her 90-100's, this could give us circumstantial evidence of some effect of their numenorian lineage.


PS It's amazing what you pick up on with lotr, no matter how many times you've read the books. It serves me right for not reading the appendices thoroughly, but I've only just found out that Aragorn, with the assistance of Eomer was still at war battling enemies "beyond the Sea of Rhun and on the far fields of the south" after Sauron was destroyed. I must have a proper read now.......

[Mithalwen]

Osse: Ha bloody Ha...... elvish bodies actually disappeared soon after death ...
(Nice to see you back though )

I meant that Eldarion should have a span on a par with his father's not a lesser one - as Boromir suggested. If Aragorn had married a woman of a lesser line ...even from the pure house of Dol Amroth, Eldarion might have had a lesser span.... I am aware of the limits of the choice - if I remember correctly, I think the immortals' perception that Death was the Gift of Iluvatar and so should not be with held from those with any sort of "entitlement".

Also, wasn't the line of Elros' longevity (even by Numenorean standards) a "perk" of his Elvish descent ....... not an automatic one pehaps .....

I think it is not unreasonable to hope that Eowyn lived at least as long as her brother ...... women usually have a longer life so she might have lmade it to 100....

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

To understand why those with Númenórean blood have or have not a lengthy lifespan, we must first understand what gave the Dúnedain such a lifespan in the first place.

. . . the increase in the Númenórean lifespan was brought about by assimilation of their mode of life to that of the Eldar . . . (UT II 3 - endnote 1)

Since the Eldar were already in decline wouldn’t it also mean that the famed Númenórean longevity of old would fade, too? And as is said by Faramir:

[Faramir: ]For so we reckon Men in our lore, calling them the High, or the Men of the West, which were Númenóreans, and the Middle Peoples, Men of the Twilight, such as are the Rohirrim and their kin . . .
[W]e [the Númenóreans] have become more like [the Men of Twilight], and can scarce claim any longer the title High. (LotR IV 5)

Would not the last distinction - the lifespan - disappear, too, in this assimilation of mode of life?

[Mithalwen]

Oh that is an interesting point .. and may well explain Faramir's span - Sam (who after all by now had spent more time with elves, including some of the noblest left in ME than most other mortals then alive) discerns an elvish quality about Faramir. Faramir replies that Sam detects, maybe an air of Numenor. Faramir is in body and spirit as well as lineage about as true a Numenorean as Gondor can muster at the end of the Third age and under his lordship, Ithilien will mirror (in a lesser way) Numenor. Here elves (albeit the Silvan elves of Mirkwood not the Eldar of Eressea) share their skills with men and even dwell alongside them for a while. When Sam and Frodo meet Faramir, he and his men are using Elvish as a first language in Ithilien ... I wonder if there are any other indications.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

And this time, since the Elves who'll be teaching these Men were those truly of Middle-earth - the Sindar and Silvan Elves - perhaps the lessons they'll be teaching would be more bound to Middle-earth. (A problem with those Númenóreans is that they called themselves Exiles, when their place is really Middle-earth.)

[yavanna II]

If we apply genetics, certainly Eowyn & Eomer's l.f. wouldve been longer. Check out Mendel's work (sorry I cnt place a pic of the trials)


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This is the effect of geeky biology. I am practically mad bout it.
Oh my do science & Tolkienry mix?