Elrond and Elros

[The X Phial]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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A question cam up in the chat room last night and I was wondering if anyone could elucidate it for me. The question was whether Elrond and Elros were twins. I was assured that they are, but no one could give me a reference. I plead ignorance on this...anyone?

-*-The X Phial-*- You must believe in free will, you have no choice. Isaac Singer</p>

[HerenIstarion]

Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 985
Re: Elrond and Elros

In the beginnig there was only Elrond planned, Elros came in later:

And of like fate were those fair offspring of Elf and mortal,
Earendel, and Elwing, and Dior her father, and Elrond her child.

History of ME, vol 4, The Quenta

I can't recall any clear evidence of those two being twins, but from the following quote:

...and he took to wife Elwing the fair, and she bore to him Elrond and Elros, who are called the Half-elven

Silmarillion, chp 24, Of The Voyage of Earendil and War of Wrath

Following the quote, it may be assumed they were twins indeed, for they are not named separately, but together in a manner of speech to imply they were equal and alike in all ways.

[Beregond]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Elrond and Elros

It seems that they were not twins, because it never says anything to really suggest that they were. Elros was born 58 years before the end of the first age. But the birth of Elrond is unknown. It could be either way, but I don't think Tolkien intended them to be twins. <img src=indifferent.gif ALT=":/"> <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="">

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[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Elrond and Elros

Since twins run in family lines and Elronds sons were, I would say this lends weight to the sons of earendil in fact being twins. It is true Elrond was first in conception, but this does not nec. effect a later idea. Tar elenion may well know of an obscure quote from Peopls of Middle-Earth or The problem of -Ros. I am on a dash out the door or I would peek.



Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[HerenIstarion]

Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 989
Re: Elrond and Elros

I, having Tolkien's renowned scrupulousity and love for detail, doubt him putting in Elrond and Elros if there were difference of the time of their birth. In the most shortened accounts would be rather she bore Elrond, and Elros after him or something of the kind. But still, I repeat, no direct reference.

[Taimar]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Elrond and Elros

If my memory serves me well, Elros and Elrond are described as the `twin sons of Earendil` in the Tale of Years printed in HOME XI, The War of the Jewels. I don`t know if there is an explicit reference, but as far as I can recall, Elros is generally named first when the brethren are mentioned together. This fact, combined with a quote from `The Problem
of Ros` where Elros is described as `first` (sorry, can`t remember it more precisely), makes me suspect that Elros was the elder twin. Hopefully others more erudite than I can clarify this.

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[HerenIstarion]

Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 1010
Re: Elrond and Elros[/b]

Here it is, in the tale of years in HoME v 11 p 297:

500.
Elrun and Eldun twin sons of Dior are born.
Morgoth releases Hurin. Hurin goes to Hithlum.

In the first versions they are twins. I can see no reason why change it later. But inquiry will go on

[Taimar]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Elrond and Elros

Eldun and Elrun are the sons of Dior, not of Earendil. These names are earlier variants of Elured and Elurin, the unfortunate youngsters who were left to starve in the wild by the Sons of Feanor.

The quote I am thinking of actually refers to Elros and Elrond. They are definitely called `twin sons of Earendil`.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000099>Taimar</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.ezboard.com/ezgfx/gicons/black_lightning.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 4/6/01 4:45:20 pm

[Glorfindel]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Elrond and Elros

I think that would suck, i mean they never really knew their father either. If they lived in our world, they would definatly be undergoing counciling(not the white counciling though), in a supermax for murder, or on a daytime talkshow crying about how much they have been neglected by their parents. Also saying how much of a cool Guy Great uncle Meadros and Maglor are because they let them stay up late when captured at the mouth of Sirion.

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[HerenIstarion]

Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 1011
Re: Elrond and Elros

Mea culpa. Don't you hurry man, as I always say to myself

Ok, here is the right entry:

528
Elros and Elrond twin sons of Earendil born.

Same volume, somewhere near same page