how big were the silmarils - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lord Syslox of Emyn Beverli · 09-05-2002, 05:29 PM

The first time I read the Silmarion, i imagined the silmarils as being quite large. About as big as an orange or apple.

After reading the silmarion anumber of times more, i noticed something indicative of their size.
When Beren takes a silmaril from Morgoth, he can fit his hold hand around it (which is how it is found in the stomack of the wolf Carcharoth).
Also Earendil wears the silmaril on his brow by means of a fillit or circlet (i think). If the silmaril was as large as i originally thought, this would be impossible.

This made me imagine it as quite small, like a normal sized diamond or other jewel. But i just don't like that, and my mind refuses to picture it like that. Now i at least picture it as big as a table tennis ball.

Is it still too big?
Would it be possible to wear it on your brow at this size?
Does anyone else have my problem!!??
What size did you picture the silmarils?

Manwe Sulimo · 09-05-2002, 06:00 PM

I always imagined the Silmarils as about the size of a quarter (about 2 inches in diameter or so). This would make it possible to fit on a circlet, in a necklace (the Nauglimir), but still large enough for all three of them to dominate Morgoth's crown.

Guildo · 09-05-2002, 06:49 PM

Becouse their power was Supernatural so to speak, not unlike the one ring im pretty sure the size of the Silmarils where adaptable in a sense according to the power and size of the bearer, like when they where set uppon morgoth's crown probably about the size of a baseball or softfall enough for Beren to get a good grip and not let go but when the set in the Nauglamir probably the size of a quarter.

but thats just my two lembas worth

Arie · 09-05-2002, 07:01 PM

...Well the jewels should be small enough to fit on to a crown...well I always thought they were small-remember when one was on Earendil's brow-and then when it was on Morgoth's crown?

Morgoth Bauglir · 09-05-2002, 07:26 PM

i thought they were the size of a ring.

Morquesse · 09-05-2002, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Does anyone else have my problem!!??

Yes! (but then, it would OUR problem, not yours) I picture them between the size of an apple and the size of a plum, but still too big to put on Earendil's brow! Or maybe not? Who knows. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
~M

Eol · 09-05-2002, 11:09 PM

Well it can still be a size of a tennis ball and be worn around the neck. A pretty impress jem would you not agree?

Tirned Tinnu · 09-06-2002, 05:01 AM

I confess, I never thought about the difference of sizing when Thingol used one in The Nauglamir, or when Earandil placed it on his brow! I am indeed puzzled by that. Perhaps we are looking at it from the wrong perspective. What if the gems were more ovular in nature, and flatter? I direct you to look at the work of Nordic and Irish jewelry. There you will see that gems were cut nearly flat on two sides, in order to facilitate their being set in brooches, crowns, and bracelets.

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ]

O'Boile · 09-06-2002, 07:26 AM

I always thought they would be a little smaller than a plum or a raquet ball, but that was just what I envisioned. I really have no basis for drawing that conclusion.

mark12_30 · 09-06-2002, 08:25 AM

Does anybody else remember reading that they were the size of an egg? Check Mith's fanfic, Maglor (the drunken elf) has the burn mark in his hand, and Mith describes it. Tales from Tol Eressea, chapter three or four?

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

lathspell · 09-06-2002, 08:29 AM

I believe I read that Feanor wore all three of them at special opportunities on Aman, when he had made them a short while earlier. I do not know if they were all on his brow, but I picture them quite small.

greetings,
lathspell

mark12_30 · 09-06-2002, 08:32 AM

Watch me quote Mithadan as if he was CANON!!!! (demonic laughter) Actually this comes from Tales From Tol Eressea, Chapter 3. But I think the Proffessor also said they were the size of an egg. (And oh yeah, Mithadan is usually pretty careful.)

Quote:

Maglor's voice shook again and a mad light appeared in his eyes. "Wouldst thou behold a Silmaril Ælfwine?" he cried. And he opened his hands and held them palms forward. Graven on each palm as if seared by a brand was the impression of an oval jewel of the size of an egg.

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Eol · 09-06-2002, 09:04 AM

Hmmm...interesting, as that would make sense.Though I also think the concept of them being ovular in nature and later fashioned to be worn also make sense.

***Mithadan*** · 09-06-2002, 10:03 AM

My description of the shape and size of the Silmarils in Tales from Tol Eressea is from my own imagination. In fact, my personal vision of the jewels has changed over time. When I first read the Silmarillion, I imagined them to be unfaceted and round or oval. Later I viewed them as faceted oval cabochons (rounded on one side, slightly flattened on the other). As for size, I always viewed them as being similar to a small egg, about 80 carats or a bit more -- much larger than stones found typically in jewelry but smaller than, say, the Arkenstone (which I thought would be between the size of a baseball and a softball). This would be small enough for all three to be worn on Feanor's brows.

I have a vague recollection of JRRT comparing them to an egg somewhere, perhaps in Letters, but am not sure. I also seem to recall them referred to as cabochons, maybe in Lays of Beleriand, but they were definitely referred to as "globes", Lay of Leithian, line 1642. This description is found in the poetic version of the Oath of Feanor, which was later changed and the "globe" reference omitted. They are also referred to as "globes" in the abandoned poem, The Flight of the Noldoli from Valinor.

09-05-2002, 05:29 PM	#1
Lord Syslox of Emyn Beverli Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tol Hardor Posts: 15	how big were the silmarils The first time I read the Silmarion, i imagined the silmarils as being quite large. About as big as an orange or apple. After reading the silmarion anumber of times more, i noticed something indicative of their size. When Beren takes a silmaril from Morgoth, he can fit his hold hand around it (which is how it is found in the stomack of the wolf Carcharoth). Also Earendil wears the silmaril on his brow by means of a fillit or circlet (i think). If the silmaril was as large as i originally thought, this would be impossible. This made me imagine it as quite small, like a normal sized diamond or other jewel. But i just don't like that, and my mind refuses to picture it like that. Now i at least picture it as big as a table tennis ball. Is it still too big? Would it be possible to wear it on your brow at this size? Does anyone else have my problem!!?? What size did you picture the silmarils? __________________ "Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart" - Faramir to Eowyn. "A warrior should have more skills and knowlegde than only the craft of weapons and slaying" - Faramir

09-05-2002, 06:00 PM	#2
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	I always imagined the Silmarils as about the size of a quarter (about 2 inches in diameter or so). This would make it possible to fit on a circlet, in a necklace (the Nauglimir), but still large enough for all three of them to dominate Morgoth's crown. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

09-05-2002, 06:49 PM	#3
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	Becouse their power was Supernatural so to speak, not unlike the one ring im pretty sure the size of the Silmarils where adaptable in a sense according to the power and size of the bearer, like when they where set uppon morgoth's crown probably about the size of a baseball or softfall enough for Beren to get a good grip and not let go but when the set in the Nauglamir probably the size of a quarter. but thats just my two lembas worth __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight

09-05-2002, 07:01 PM	#4
Arie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fangorn Forest Posts: 50	...Well the jewels should be small enough to fit on to a crown...well I always thought they were small-remember when one was on Earendil's brow-and then when it was on Morgoth's crown? __________________ "Don't tell me of facts, I never believe facts; you know Canning said nothing was so fallacious as facts, except figures."--Sydney Smith

09-05-2002, 11:09 PM	#7
Eol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Pacific Northwest - Tir Nan Og Posts: 306	Well it can still be a size of a tennis ball and be worn around the neck. A pretty impress jem would you not agree? __________________ Mes sana in corpec sano- (lt.) A sound mind in a sound body

09-05-2002, 07:26 PM	#5
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	i thought they were the size of a ring.

09-06-2002, 05:01 AM	#8
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	I confess, I never thought about the difference of sizing when Thingol used one in The Nauglamir, or when Earandil placed it on his brow! I am indeed puzzled by that. Perhaps we are looking at it from the wrong perspective. What if the gems were more ovular in nature, and flatter? I direct you to look at the work of Nordic and Irish jewelry. There you will see that gems were cut nearly flat on two sides, in order to facilitate their being set in brooches, crowns, and bracelets. [ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ] __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'

09-06-2002, 07:26 AM	#9
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	I always thought they would be a little smaller than a plum or a raquet ball, but that was just what I envisioned. I really have no basis for drawing that conclusion.

09-06-2002, 08:25 AM	#10
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Does anybody else remember reading that they were the size of an egg? Check Mith's fanfic, Maglor (the drunken elf) has the burn mark in his hand, and Mith describes it. Tales from Tol Eressea, chapter three or four? [ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

09-06-2002, 08:29 AM	#11
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	I believe I read that Feanor wore all three of them at special opportunities on Aman, when he had made them a short while earlier. I do not know if they were all on his brow, but I picture them quite small. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

09-06-2002, 09:04 AM	#13
Eol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Pacific Northwest - Tir Nan Og Posts: 306	Hmmm...interesting, as that would make sense.Though I also think the concept of them being ovular in nature and later fashioned to be worn also make sense. __________________ Mes sana in corpec sano- (lt.) A sound mind in a sound body

09-06-2002, 10:03 AM	#14
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,381	My description of the shape and size of the Silmarils in Tales from Tol Eressea is from my own imagination. In fact, my personal vision of the jewels has changed over time. When I first read the Silmarillion, I imagined them to be unfaceted and round or oval. Later I viewed them as faceted oval cabochons (rounded on one side, slightly flattened on the other). As for size, I always viewed them as being similar to a small egg, about 80 carats or a bit more -- much larger than stones found typically in jewelry but smaller than, say, the Arkenstone (which I thought would be between the size of a baseball and a softball). This would be small enough for all three to be worn on Feanor's brows. I have a vague recollection of JRRT comparing them to an egg somewhere, perhaps in Letters, but am not sure. I also seem to recall them referred to as cabochons, maybe in Lays of Beleriand, but they were definitely referred to as "globes", Lay of Leithian, line 1642. This description is found in the poetic version of the Oath of Feanor, which was later changed and the "globe" reference omitted. They are also referred to as "globes" in the abandoned poem, The Flight of the Noldoli from Valinor. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.