When it comes right down to it... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ibun_Clawarrow · 04-16-2002, 11:17 AM

Okay, we all know that Elves were supposed to be the most beautiful and skillful creatures ever to set foot on Arda, but when it comes right down to it, can we really say it would be better to be an elf or that they're better than Men? I've been thinking about this for awhile, and it's beginning to seem like being an immortal elf isn't all its cracked up to be. Elves seem to have many of the same faults that people do; jealosy, anger, bloodlust, hatred, lust etc. And their immortal nature does seem to present them from being more curious about lfe. I mean, if you've been around for 3,000+ years, life can get pretty boring, I imagine, but Men, with their short life spans, feel the need to go out an accomplish their dreams as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the Elves, but I'm beginning to realize that being an Elf is more than just singing songs about stars. I imagine every ME race has its pros and cons though.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 04-16-2002, 12:48 PM

Well, that kinda goes along the lines of mortality being the "doom of Men" and immortality being the "doom of Elves".
The grass always looks greener on the other side, but when you hop the fence the grass may look greener on the side you just hopped from.

The Half-Hobbit · 04-16-2002, 01:27 PM

I believe that elves and men are different but equal. It is easy for elves to seem superior to men at first glance because the gifts that Illuvatar gave to men are strange: death, and restlessness to seek beyond the world, and the power to shape their own fate beyond that which was laid down by the music of the Ainur. That is why men often stray from the light.
Elves have the greater bliss, but I think that men have a greater influence on the world's fate.

Beren87 · 04-16-2002, 07:18 PM

Elves, are men as if they had never left the Garden of Eden.
Qoute from Tolkien in the Autobiography

Ibun_Clawarrow · 04-16-2002, 11:00 PM

I don't know if I would say Elves are like Men in the Garden of Eden. Remember Adam and Eve were innocent befor eating the apple from the Tree of Life ad afterwards they kne the diference between good and evil. The Elves definate know the dffererence and they do a fair amount of killing, lusting and other stuff (examples: Feanor, Eol, Celegorm, Cufurin, etc.) They're people too, I suppose, or they have many of the same flaws that humans do at any rate.

Jessica Jade · 04-21-2002, 01:29 PM

There are pros and cons to both. Elves are immortal, and their memory lasts for ages,but men grow old and die, and lessons they learn are quickly forgotten. However, The Gift (or Doom) of Men allows them to die and to be free from the circles of the world, whereas elves are forever bound to Arda.

Quote from ch. 1 of Quenta Silmarillion:

Quote:

It is with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive, and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither the elves know not. Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore, and as the years lengthen ever more sorrowful. ... But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world...death is their fate, the gift of Iluvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy.

Before i read the Sil i had thought that Elves are what Man would have been like if not for the fall of Adam and Eve, but in LOTR, it was all from the perspective of men, hobbits, dwarves...to them, elves seemed Magical because they (hobbits, men, etc) knew so little about the elves. Now i think i'd still rather be human. Although i'd like to dwell in the bliss of Valinor or Tol Erresea, i'd probably wnat to be free from the circles of the world one day rather than be bound to it forever.

04-16-2002, 11:17 AM	#1
Ibun_Clawarrow Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 20	When it comes right down to it... Okay, we all know that Elves were supposed to be the most beautiful and skillful creatures ever to set foot on Arda, but when it comes right down to it, can we really say it would be better to be an elf or that they're better than Men? I've been thinking about this for awhile, and it's beginning to seem like being an immortal elf isn't all its cracked up to be. Elves seem to have many of the same faults that people do; jealosy, anger, bloodlust, hatred, lust etc. And their immortal nature does seem to present them from being more curious about lfe. I mean, if you've been around for 3,000+ years, life can get pretty boring, I imagine, but Men, with their short life spans, feel the need to go out an accomplish their dreams as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love the Elves, but I'm beginning to realize that being an Elf is more than just singing songs about stars. I imagine every ME race has its pros and cons though. __________________ Isil was first wrought and made ready, and first rose into the realms of the stars, and was the elder of the new lights, as was Telperion of the Trees. Then for a while the world had moonlight, and many things stirred and woke that had waited long in the sleep of Yavanna. The servants of Morgoth were filled with amazement, but the Elves of the Outer Lands looked up in delight; and even as the Moon rose above the darkness in the West, Fingolfin let blow his silver trumpets and began his march into Middle Earth, and the shadows of his host went long and black before them.

04-16-2002, 12:48 PM	#2
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	Well, that kinda goes along the lines of mortality being the "doom of Men" and immortality being the "doom of Elves". The grass always looks greener on the other side, but when you hop the fence the grass may look greener on the side you just hopped from. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

04-16-2002, 01:27 PM	#3
The Half-Hobbit Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 51	I believe that elves and men are different but equal. It is easy for elves to seem superior to men at first glance because the gifts that Illuvatar gave to men are strange: death, and restlessness to seek beyond the world, and the power to shape their own fate beyond that which was laid down by the music of the Ainur. That is why men often stray from the light. Elves have the greater bliss, but I think that men have a greater influence on the world's fate. __________________ I'm your only friend. I'm not your only friend, But I'm a little glowing friend, But really I'm not actually your friend, But I am. -They Might Be Giants

04-16-2002, 11:00 PM	#5
Ibun_Clawarrow Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 20	I don't know if I would say Elves are like Men in the Garden of Eden. Remember Adam and Eve were innocent befor eating the apple from the Tree of Life ad afterwards they kne the diference between good and evil. The Elves definate know the dffererence and they do a fair amount of killing, lusting and other stuff (examples: Feanor, Eol, Celegorm, Cufurin, etc.) They're people too, I suppose, or they have many of the same flaws that humans do at any rate. __________________ Isil was first wrought and made ready, and first rose into the realms of the stars, and was the elder of the new lights, as was Telperion of the Trees. Then for a while the world had moonlight, and many things stirred and woke that had waited long in the sleep of Yavanna. The servants of Morgoth were filled with amazement, but the Elves of the Outer Lands looked up in delight; and even as the Moon rose above the darkness in the West, Fingolfin let blow his silver trumpets and began his march into Middle Earth, and the shadows of his host went long and black before them.

04-16-2002, 07:18 PM	#4
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	Elves, are men as if they had never left the Garden of Eden. Qoute from Tolkien in the Autobiography