The Origin of Hobbits - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

NZ Ringbearer · 07-24-2004, 09:22 PM

In the Silmarillion, it has details on the creation of each race. It says that Aule created Dwarves, Yavanna created Ents, Melkor created Balrogs, orcs ect, and so forth. Elves and Men were the children of Iluvatar.

It also says that everything living was in the Undying Lands at one point.

So, to me, this brings the question:

Where did the Hobbits come from/Who created them?

Alchisiel · 07-24-2004, 11:10 PM

I found the thread that might help you. Look in the newcomers section or try the search function and type origin of hobbits. Hope this helps you.

The Perky Ent · 07-25-2004, 11:34 AM

If you have trouble finding it, it's here! And BTW, Melkor didn't really create Balrogs. They were originally maia, but Melkor twisted them into a darker form. Orcs on the other hand, were a totally new species, so he did create those.

Findegil · 07-26-2004, 01:36 AM

Melkor did neither creat the Balrogs nor Orcs. In Tolkien view of the his created world the evil is inpotent, not able to creat anythink. Melkor had a great potency to twist and corrupt any given creation he could get hold on. But he had lost all his creativ power in his rebellion in the Ainulindale.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.:The origin of the Orcs was never finaly accounted by Tolkien. His Last view seemed to be a mixed origin: Some leaders were Maiar and their offspring, some were pupetlike unanimated createrues, some were animals enhanced only by malice impented by Morgoth, some were corrupted Men, and there might have been even some Orcs with corrupted Elves as ancestors.

Morsul the Dark · 07-26-2004, 02:20 AM

This may sound silly I do however believe there may be some potential in this theory

I Understand Besides Arwen only one elf loved a mortal man however

Dwarves and elves certainly got along once upon a time and as we see with gimli dwarves are prone to loving elf women

and seeing not set source for hobbit perhaps they were a breed born of dwarves and elves they are afterall elf like in appearance and dwarflike in hight...

I understand this is a farfetched Idea I however have always thought this to be the answer

NZ Ringbearer · 07-26-2004, 02:39 AM

Hmmm...is it me or has this thread gone a little off topic? It started off as my question about Hobbit origins, now we're discussing Orcs. Oh, and thanks for the link to the thread, Perky Ent!

What I was meaning before was that Melkor created Balrogs - they may have been Maiar (in fact I think I read somewhere they were) at first, but Melkor turned them into Balrogs - they didn't start out like that and just switch sides...(did they?)

As for Orcs, it is my understanding that they were originally Elves, captured and tourtured beyond anything we know of. So thats my two cents for that question.

And as for Morsul the Dark, that theory, although a little far-fetched, could be quite possible. To me, its a humorus thought!!!!

Iluvatar bless you all

Morsul the Dark · 07-26-2004, 02:48 AM

aye it is partially a joke it is also a decent theory

Mithalwen · 07-26-2004, 10:53 AM

Err I remember reading somewhere that Hobbits were men in origin...... I think the pointy ears are a film creation surely? other than size and hairy feet they are like men .....alike enough to coexist at Bree.... I imagine they sprang of some genetic mutation and then maybe having been shunned by their communities as can so often be the fate of those who are differen they formed a breakaway community .... this would explain their love of privacy and retiring nature ...

Morsul the Dark · 07-26-2004, 10:55 AM

but remember the orcs in mordor they mistook them for elves

Mithalwen · 07-26-2004, 11:01 AM

The orcs of mordor had probably never seen elves and not heard of hobbits .... like Faramir's companions they probably thought anything they didn't recognize would be elves...... too soft footed and subtle for men......

And I think it is clera in nature and inclination hobbits are much closer to men than elves...

Morsul the Dark · 07-26-2004, 11:05 AM

I think I would disagree they have stronger wills then men that is one of the reasons they resist the ring and they love all things natural and buil with nature not on it like elves

Mithalwen · 07-26-2004, 11:27 AM

Hmm... I sense I won't convince you but I would say that they are primitive, uncorrupted men living simple lives...disinterested in powere because they are a small but determined race... yes they love nature but in almost every other respect they are unlike elves certainly the Eldar ...andI suspect they are more like men than the Avari...

Lyta_Underhill · 07-26-2004, 12:20 PM

This does seem to be a popular recurring topic! Even the titles of some of the threads are the same, with minimal variations. I'll provide a couple more links here (I hope I'm not repeating!):
Where do hobbits come from?
Where do Hobbits come from?
the origin of hobbits

Cheers!
Lyta

Tuor of Gondolin · 07-27-2004, 06:54 PM

As for hobbits originating with the Big Folk, although these are elf allusions:

If you have the LOTR: FOTR EE DVD (there's a series of letters for you!)
check out the chippy comments of the four lads about why the elf girls were upset when they left Rivendell.

Also, in "Bored of the Rings", Galadriel's tempting of Frodo.

07-24-2004, 09:22 PM	#1
NZ Ringbearer Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Recovering in Rivendell ; ) Posts: 59	The Origin of Hobbits In the Silmarillion, it has details on the creation of each race. It says that Aule created Dwarves, Yavanna created Ents, Melkor created Balrogs, orcs ect, and so forth. Elves and Men were the children of Iluvatar. It also says that everything living was in the Undying Lands at one point. So, to me, this brings the question: Where did the Hobbits come from/Who created them? __________________ Auta Miqula Orqu...Go Kiss an Orc! Frodo Lives! Spread the word! Say 'No' to Nazgul!!!

07-24-2004, 11:10 PM	#2
Alchisiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: At The Golden Perch enjoying the best pint in the East Farthing! Posts: 68	I found the thread that might help you. Look in the newcomers section or try the search function and type origin of hobbits. Hope this helps you. __________________ YOU shall not pass!! Even the smallest person can change the course of the future...

07-25-2004, 11:34 AM	#3
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	If you have trouble finding it, it's here! And BTW, Melkor didn't really create Balrogs. They were originally maia, but Melkor twisted them into a darker form. Orcs on the other hand, were a totally new species, so he did create those. __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

07-26-2004, 02:20 AM	#5
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	This may sound silly I do however believe there may be some potential in this theory I Understand Besides Arwen only one elf loved a mortal man however Dwarves and elves certainly got along once upon a time and as we see with gimli dwarves are prone to loving elf women and seeing not set source for hobbit perhaps they were a breed born of dwarves and elves they are afterall elf like in appearance and dwarflike in hight... I understand this is a farfetched Idea I however have always thought this to be the answer __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

07-26-2004, 02:39 AM	#6
NZ Ringbearer Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Recovering in Rivendell ; ) Posts: 59	Hmmm...is it me or has this thread gone a little off topic? It started off as my question about Hobbit origins, now we're discussing Orcs. Oh, and thanks for the link to the thread, Perky Ent! What I was meaning before was that Melkor created Balrogs - they may have been Maiar (in fact I think I read somewhere they were) at first, but Melkor turned them into Balrogs - they didn't start out like that and just switch sides...(did they?) As for Orcs, it is my understanding that they were originally Elves, captured and tourtured beyond anything we know of. So thats my two cents for that question. And as for Morsul the Dark, that theory, although a little far-fetched, could be quite possible. To me, its a humorus thought!!!! Iluvatar bless you all __________________ Auta Miqula Orqu...Go Kiss an Orc! Frodo Lives! Spread the word! Say 'No' to Nazgul!!!

07-26-2004, 01:36 AM	#4
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	Melkor did neither creat the Balrogs nor Orcs. In Tolkien view of the his created world the evil is inpotent, not able to creat anythink. Melkor had a great potency to twist and corrupt any given creation he could get hold on. But he had lost all his creativ power in his rebellion in the Ainulindale. Respectfully Findegil P.S.:The origin of the Orcs was never finaly accounted by Tolkien. His Last view seemed to be a mixed origin: Some leaders were Maiar and their offspring, some were pupetlike unanimated createrues, some were animals enhanced only by malice impented by Morgoth, some were corrupted Men, and there might have been even some Orcs with corrupted Elves as ancestors.

07-26-2004, 02:48 AM	#7
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	aye it is partially a joke it is also a decent theory __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

07-26-2004, 10:53 AM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Err I remember reading somewhere that Hobbits were men in origin...... I think the pointy ears are a film creation surely? other than size and hairy feet they are like men .....alike enough to coexist at Bree.... I imagine they sprang of some genetic mutation and then maybe having been shunned by their communities as can so often be the fate of those who are differen they formed a breakaway community .... this would explain their love of privacy and retiring nature ... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-26-2004, 10:55 AM	#9
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	but remember the orcs in mordor they mistook them for elves __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

07-26-2004, 11:01 AM	#10
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	The orcs of mordor had probably never seen elves and not heard of hobbits .... like Faramir's companions they probably thought anything they didn't recognize would be elves...... too soft footed and subtle for men...... And I think it is clera in nature and inclination hobbits are much closer to men than elves... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-26-2004, 11:05 AM	#11
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	I think I would disagree they have stronger wills then men that is one of the reasons they resist the ring and they love all things natural and buil with nature not on it like elves __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

07-26-2004, 11:27 AM	#12
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Hmm... I sense I won't convince you but I would say that they are primitive, uncorrupted men living simple lives...disinterested in powere because they are a small but determined race... yes they love nature but in almost every other respect they are unlike elves certainly the Eldar ...andI suspect they are more like men than the Avari... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-26-2004, 12:20 PM	#13
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	The Origin of the origin of hobbits.... This does seem to be a popular recurring topic! Even the titles of some of the threads are the same, with minimal variations. I'll provide a couple more links here (I hope I'm not repeating!): Where do hobbits come from? Where do Hobbits come from? the origin of hobbits Cheers! Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

07-27-2004, 06:54 PM	#14
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	As for hobbits originating with the Big Folk, although these are elf allusions: If you have the LOTR: FOTR EE DVD (there's a series of letters for you!) check out the chippy comments of the four lads about why the elf girls were upset when they left Rivendell. Also, in "Bored of the Rings", Galadriel's tempting of Frodo. Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin; 07-27-2004 at 06:58 PM.