what's a chattel? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ork _huntr · 09-01-2002, 03:32 PM

i've just reread FotR and i came upon the part when Gandalf says "not all his servants are chattels and wraiths." what's a chattel? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Bill Ferny · 09-01-2002, 04:18 PM

A chattel is a peice of private property. When used to refer to a person, it denotes a slave. I guess in this context, Tolkien used the word to indicate someone who was completely under the control of another to the extent that they were unable to think or act for themselves.

[ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ]

Auriel Haevasawen · 09-02-2002, 02:33 PM

Your wife was also your chattel but don't go round reminding us feminists or we get upset. Unthinking slave type is the most common meaning and the one meant in the phrase. The definition given by the nice person above is spot on.

ork _huntr · 09-03-2002, 03:33 PM

i don't think gandalf meant it in that sense about the wife thing. fight those male pigs girlfriend! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 09-04-2002, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Your wife was also your chattel but don't go round reminding us feminists or we get upset.

That's odd: I was completely unaware of this, so I checked on dictionary.com and in the Shorter Oxford. They make no mention of a wife being considered a chattel, which is more specifically a piece of moveable
private property. What was your source?

No, Gandalf most certainly did not mean it in that sense; it wouldn't fit the context.

Bill Ferny · 09-04-2002, 08:31 PM

LOL!

No, sorry, in this day and age the only chattel in the bond of marriage is the husband! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Tirned Tinnu · 09-06-2002, 01:18 PM

Hah, all this wife/husband joking is lol to be sure.
However, the right description of chattel - as you can see- it looks and sounds like the word "cattle" doesn't it? It comes from the same root. It implies that not only is a person a slave, but one who cannot think for themselves, as a cow would be. They must be told what to do, at all times. Chattel is property. Where we see that women are referred to as chattel it is usually in the context of decribing a harem or whorehouse full of women. They serve a purpose, and must be taken care of, like cattle.

Looking in my old Medieval English dictionary I find the word "Catel" to mean cattle and chattel, in Olde French. The translation: Property.

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ]

09-01-2002, 03:32 PM	#1
ork _huntr Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: if i knew i would tell you Posts: 12	what's a chattel? i've just reread FotR and i came upon the part when Gandalf says "not all his servants are chattels and wraiths." what's a chattel? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ i can't take his money, i can't print my own money, i have to work for money,why don't i just die? oh.. so that's what that button does.

09-01-2002, 04:18 PM	#2
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 390	A chattel is a peice of private property. When used to refer to a person, it denotes a slave. I guess in this context, Tolkien used the word to indicate someone who was completely under the control of another to the extent that they were unable to think or act for themselves. [ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ] __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.

09-02-2002, 02:33 PM	#3
Auriel Haevasawen Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nowhere of importance Posts: 240	Your wife was also your chattel but don't go round reminding us feminists or we get upset. Unthinking slave type is the most common meaning and the one meant in the phrase. The definition given by the nice person above is spot on. __________________ Auriel

09-03-2002, 03:33 PM	#4
ork _huntr Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: if i knew i would tell you Posts: 12	i don't think gandalf meant it in that sense about the wife thing. fight those male pigs girlfriend! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ i can't take his money, i can't print my own money, i have to work for money,why don't i just die? oh.. so that's what that button does.

09-04-2002, 08:31 PM	#6
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 390	LOL! No, sorry, in this day and age the only chattel in the bond of marriage is the husband! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.

09-06-2002, 01:18 PM	#7
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	Hah, all this wife/husband joking is lol to be sure. However, the right description of chattel - as you can see- it looks and sounds like the word "cattle" doesn't it? It comes from the same root. It implies that not only is a person a slave, but one who cannot think for themselves, as a cow would be. They must be told what to do, at all times. Chattel is property. Where we see that women are referred to as chattel it is usually in the context of decribing a harem or whorehouse full of women. They serve a purpose, and must be taken care of, like cattle. Looking in my old Medieval English dictionary I find the word "Catel" to mean cattle and chattel, in Olde French. The translation: Property. [ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ] __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'