Ungoliant and Melko's envy - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iarhen · 01-01-2004, 10:37 PM

In the Silmarillion is stated that Ungoliant came upon the kingdom of Arda when Melko first looked in envy the works of the Valar and the realm of Manwe...

So, this would mean that Melko created Ungoliant when he was struck by such envy? Would it mean, then, that Ungoliant was corrupted by such envy?

I know that Ungoliant was an ainu corrupted to Melko's service... But her origins fascinate me...

But if Ungoliant was a corrupted maia, then what purpose did she have before her corruption? I mean, Sauron was a worker under Aule's orders... the Balrogs were spirits of fire... But what about her?

Lord of Angmar · 01-01-2004, 10:48 PM

Well, first and foremost, there is no conclusive evidence that Ungoliant was a Maia. It is stated in the Silmarillion that she "descended from the darkness that lies about Arda," and became subject to Melkor, only to "[disown] her Master, desiring to be mistress of her own lust". Descending from the darkness around Arda does not sound to me like an Ainu coming from the Halls of Iluvatar. Also, there is no logic behind the theory that somehow Melkor's envy is what created Ungoliant. I think that the sentence, "...but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies around Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe..." was more a statement of coincidence and a means of showing at what time period Ungoliant arrived in Arda than a suggestion that Melkor could somehow create evil spirits with his thoughts alone.

01-01-2004, 10:37 PM	#1
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Ungoliant and Melko's envy In the Silmarillion is stated that Ungoliant came upon the kingdom of Arda when Melko first looked in envy the works of the Valar and the realm of Manwe... So, this would mean that Melko created Ungoliant when he was struck by such envy? Would it mean, then, that Ungoliant was corrupted by such envy? I know that Ungoliant was an ainu corrupted to Melko's service... But her origins fascinate me... But if Ungoliant was a corrupted maia, then what purpose did she have before her corruption? I mean, Sauron was a worker under Aule's orders... the Balrogs were spirits of fire... But what about her? __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

01-01-2004, 10:48 PM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Well, first and foremost, there is no conclusive evidence that Ungoliant was a Maia. It is stated in the Silmarillion that she "descended from the darkness that lies about Arda," and became subject to Melkor, only to "[disown] her Master, desiring to be mistress of her own lust". Descending from the darkness around Arda does not sound to me like an Ainu coming from the Halls of Iluvatar. Also, there is no logic behind the theory that somehow Melkor's envy is what created Ungoliant. I think that the sentence, "...but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies around Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe..." was more a statement of coincidence and a means of showing at what time period Ungoliant arrived in Arda than a suggestion that Melkor could somehow create evil spirits with his thoughts alone. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.