Is Arda earth? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bombadil · 04-06-2004, 09:37 PM

In the beginning of the hobbit, Tolkien says "...- what is a hobbit? i suppose hobbits need some description nowadays, since hey have become rare and shy of the big people, as they call us."

What does tolkien mean by that? I thought that our world and the one of Arda were seperate?

Legolas · 04-06-2004, 10:23 PM

Tolkien's legendarium was written as a supposed mythology for England since England lacked one of its own prior to his idea.

Gorwingel · 04-06-2004, 11:32 PM

Yes, to add on to what Legolas has said... Middle Earth and the stories by Tolkien are not supposed to have taken place on another planet or in another galaxy. These stories are basically supposed to be a mythical legend of a time that took place years, years, and years before our time. So, yes, Middle Earth is basically Earth. If Middle Earth had exsisted it would have taken place here

HerenIstarion · 04-07-2004, 01:09 AM

We are supposed to live in Seventh Age right now (hence Child of Seventh Age's nick, by the way)

***Sharkû*** · 04-07-2004, 05:03 AM

Also see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10403

[Do I see a need for a FAQ entry? Maybe I'll get round to it.]

Bombadil · 04-07-2004, 02:31 PM

alright thanks a lot

Essex · 04-07-2004, 03:04 PM

Bombadil, take a look at the Atlas of Middle Earth. It has an interesting view, using maps, on how the lands of today were changed from those of the 3rd age.

Gil Galad · 04-07-2004, 03:36 PM

I always thought of Arda as another Plain of existance.

Melilot Brandybuck · 04-08-2004, 07:13 AM

Ah I also wondered if Arda was Earth or somewhere in another galaxy.

Therefore the Shire must be where I live...We have moorland with heather. We have an inn in our village called The White Horse (ok not exactly The P. Pony but anyways). A field neighbouring ours has a barrow. I've yet to see a barrow wight but if I ever get my nerve up I may go up there and snoop around one foggy day. We have picturesque rolling countryside traversed by little streams and little woodlands. And what convinced me was the fox I sometimes see trotting about our fields.

Bêthberry · 04-08-2004, 08:01 AM

Quote:

I thought that our world and the one of Arda were seperate?

It is perhaps not inappropriate to mention here Tolkien's lecture "On Fairy-Stories." For him, the act of writing fantasy or "sub-creation", to be truly successful, needs to draw upon a sense of touchstone with our own l ives.

Quote:

Probably every writer making a secondary world, a fantasy, every sub-creator, wishes in some measure to be a real maker, or hopes that he is drawing on reality: hopes that the peculiar quality of this secondary world (if not all the details) are derived from Reality, or are flowing into it. If he inded achieves a quality that can fairly be describe by the dictionary definition: inner consistency of reality', it is difficult to conceive how this can be, if the workd does not in some way partake of reality. The peculiar quality of the 'joy' in successful Fantasy can thus be explained as a suddent glimpse of the underlying reality or truth.

According to Tolkien's biographer, Humphrey Carpenter, preparing this lecture gave Tolkien a renewed sense of purpose in writing LOTR. The lecture suggests that Tolkien's very purpose was to create a Middle earth which felt like it was 'real,' was part of our own world in earlier times.

Hookbill the Goomba · 04-08-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote:

We are supposed to live in Seventh Age right now.

Correct me if I am well of course, but I heard that, in one of the HoME books Christopher Tolkien referees to the birth of Christ and "It hailed a new age of the earth" was I lied to? Or does this mean that we are now in "The first age of Christ" or something like that?

***Sharkû*** · 04-08-2004, 04:05 PM

Christian references in the History of Middle-earth are very vague at best, such as in the Atrabeth. There's no instance of anything as concrete as what you mentioned, unless I'm gravely misremembering or blatantly ignoring something obvious.

Legolas · 04-08-2004, 04:51 PM

Quote:

was I lied to? Or does this mean that we are now in "The first age of Christ" or something like that?

Maybe you were confusing that with reality...the "age" we're in has been referred to as AD, Latin 'anno Domini' - "in the year of our Lord."

Hookbill the Goomba · 04-09-2004, 06:17 AM

Quote:

the "age" we're in has been referred to as AD, Latin 'anno Domini' - "in the year of our Lord."

When i said "the first age of Christ or something like that" I was merely making a suggestion of what the ages may be called if the information is true.

Amarie of the Vanyar · 04-11-2004, 10:26 AM

In this thread Seven Ages , there is an attempt of establish which event could be the end of each of the Seven Ages

04-06-2004, 09:37 PM	#1
Bombadil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Old Forest Posts: 488	Is Arda earth? In the beginning of the hobbit, Tolkien says "...- what is a hobbit? i suppose hobbits need some description nowadays, since hey have become rare and shy of the big people, as they call us." What does tolkien mean by that? I thought that our world and the one of Arda were seperate? __________________ "'Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'"

04-06-2004, 10:23 PM	#2
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Tolkien's legendarium was written as a supposed mythology for England since England lacked one of its own prior to his idea. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

04-06-2004, 11:32 PM	#3
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Yes, to add on to what Legolas has said... Middle Earth and the stories by Tolkien are not supposed to have taken place on another planet or in another galaxy. These stories are basically supposed to be a mythical legend of a time that took place years, years, and years before our time. So, yes, Middle Earth is basically Earth. If Middle Earth had exsisted it would have taken place here __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

04-07-2004, 01:09 AM	#4
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	it was said to be set in different time, but same place We are supposed to live in Seventh Age right now (hence Child of Seventh Age's nick, by the way) __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

04-07-2004, 02:31 PM	#6
Bombadil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Old Forest Posts: 488	alright thanks a lot __________________ "'Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'"

04-07-2004, 05:03 AM	#5
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Also see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10403 [Do I see a need for a FAQ entry? Maybe I'll get round to it.]

04-07-2004, 03:04 PM	#7
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Bombadil, take a look at the Atlas of Middle Earth. It has an interesting view, using maps, on how the lands of today were changed from those of the 3rd age.

04-07-2004, 03:36 PM	#8
Gil Galad Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hmm... good question.... Posts: 58	I always thought of Arda as another Plain of existance. __________________ A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK

04-08-2004, 07:13 AM	#9
Melilot Brandybuck Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 35	Ah I also wondered if Arda was Earth or somewhere in another galaxy. Therefore the Shire must be where I live...We have moorland with heather. We have an inn in our village called The White Horse (ok not exactly The P. Pony but anyways). A field neighbouring ours has a barrow. I've yet to see a barrow wight but if I ever get my nerve up I may go up there and snoop around one foggy day. We have picturesque rolling countryside traversed by little streams and little woodlands. And what convinced me was the fox I sometimes see trotting about our fields. __________________ The original and best Mel B

04-08-2004, 04:05 PM	#12
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Christian references in the History of Middle-earth are very vague at best, such as in the Atrabeth. There's no instance of anything as concrete as what you mentioned, unless I'm gravely misremembering or blatantly ignoring something obvious.

04-11-2004, 10:26 AM	#15
Amarie of the Vanyar Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 215	In this thread Seven Ages , there is an attempt of establish which event could be the end of each of the Seven Ages __________________ But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.