Arwen and the One Ring

Why is Arwen's life tied to the fate of the Ring? <P>If this topic has already been posted could someone please redirect me

[Mister Underhill]

Tying Arwen's life to the Ring is one of the more nonsensical movie inventions, and has no basis in Tolkien.

[Lyta_Underhill]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Tying Arwen's life to the Ring is one of the more nonsensical movie inventions, and has no basis in Tolkien. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I had thought this to be simply working out the consequences of Arwen's decision in favor of a mortal life to its end. If she is now mortal, her fate, like every other mortal in Middle Earth, is tied to the outcome of the War of the Ring and thus to the fate of the One Ring. The way it was stated was a bit over-dramatic, I agree, but this is how I understood it.<P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The idea that Arwen's fate is tied to the Ring does not come from the book; it is a concept that Peter Jackson put into the movie. Therefore I'm moving this thread to the Movies forum - perhaps people can give their opinions on Jackson's reason for including this idea.<P>(My very personal opinion - it's one of the most annoying parts of the RotK movie, confusing to those who haven't read the book and aggravating to those who have.)

[Lathriel]

For me thee only thing wrong with Rotk and the only thing that really bothers me is Arwen's connection to the ring. The first time I saw the movie I was and then came the puzzlement .<BR>Now I have been trying to think of theories as to how this would make sense.<BR>"Maybe," I was thinking as I saw the movie for the fourth time "it is the fact that Sauron's shadow will block the light of the evenstar and therefor Arwen's power weakens. Also if Sauron gets his ring the elven rings might drastically lose power and affect all elves including Arwen."<BR>Anyway these are just some random thoughts that I use to try and make sense of it all.

[Armetiel]

Of course Arwen's fate is tied in with the ring as soon as she chooses to stay in Middle-Earth, because all of middle-earth and all of it's inhabitant's fate's are tied in with the ring. This is obvious...<P>Why such a big emphasis is put on making it seem like this is HER fate, and not saying a thing about it being the fate of everyone in Middle-earth at that point is beyond me. I think this just makes it more confusing...

[Linnahiril Tinnufinwen]

Peter Jackson may have chosen to do this to make things more "urgent". Or perhaps even to emphasize the fact that, Aragorn is completing much of his tasks for the sake of Arwen. Not to say that he wouldn't have done what he did even if Arwen was <I>not</I> involved, but he may not have wanted to become King of Gondor so much - he was reluctant from the first to be king, and he didn't seem to desire a lot of power or wealth. Perhaps if it hadn't been for Elrond's stating that Arwen would not give herself up for anything less than the "King of Gondor and Arnor," he may not have been as motivated to become king. <P>Maybe, exaggerating on the "Returning King" theme, he may have wanted to show that Aragorn was fighting, partly, for Arwen.<p>[ 12:32 AM February 08, 2004: Message edited by: Linnahiril Tinnufinwen ]

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

I just thought that it was like that in the film because she had just 'made her choice', i.e. decided not to sail over the sea and to wait for Aragorn...and if the Ring survives, Aragorn will not become King (because Gondor will be destroyed) and she will not be able to marry him...and she'll probably die of grief. And if the Ring doesn't survive, Aragorn will become King, and she will die once she has lost all she has gained (i.e. Aragorn- apparently the children aren't enough to stop her from fading). Either way, her life is bound to the fate of the Ring- I suppose it simply meant that if she had decided to sail over the sea, she would not be affected by the fate of the Ring. But definitely over-dramatised.

[Anarion]

In the beginning part of The Sil it tells the things which can kill Elves. May hav something to do with it somehow.

[dragoneyes]

it tells the things which can kill Elves.

Well, the general destruction of Middle Earth probably would kill Elves, Arwen being included.

Another thing (related in some way) were Arwen's cold hands supposed to show that she was mortal or ill or dying? I'm taking it that Elves never have cold hands whereas as I sit here, my feet are the same temperature as the stone floor and the same floor feels nearly warm to my hands. Or am I mortal, ill and dying?

[Anarion]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dragoneyes
[B]Well, the general destruction of Middle Earth probably would kill Elves, Arwen being included.

It tells specifically. Middle Earth could be destroyed..
Arwen would probably not want to live there, then. But how they get out without the Grey Havens? Cirdan would have to build a whole new port, unless he was slain by Orcs or perhaps he looked into a Palantir and became enslaved by the big eye, maybe.
But wait... Arwen has The Ellesar! She could make it all green again. Opps, sorry; she gave that to Aragorn.. Which means he would have to survive the general destruction no matter what.. which would be no problem for the Fellowship. Maybe not easy, though. It would mean at least one more book plus with many more Hobbits, which is the key.

PS: the port would be called New Haven.

[Amanaduial the archer]

When Elrond said 'her fate is now tied directly to the ring' (sorry if those aren't the exact words), I think he meant it in a more sort of poetical sense. The way he phrased it was quite confusing though, even to people who have read the books; it seemed to actually imply that if the ring was destroyed, Arwen would be as well, which is of course completely wrong.

Arwen's fate was 'tied to the ring' more maybe than the other elves - if the evil continued to affect men, most of the elves would have already departed for the Undying Lands, whereas she would remain and so would be more affected by it's evil.

[Essex]

Or am I mortal, ill and dying?

If you are human, then you are technically dying the second you are born. ie you have a finite life. An elf doesn't.

The Arwen scenes don't really rattle with me, and I consider myself to be a 'purist' (well, I was when the films started coming out). I think it was a neat 'trick' to show that Arwen had made her decision to take mortality, and by showing her cold hands and her 'dying' was a clever cinematic way of doing this.

Tying Arwen to the Ring was a way (I believe) of kicking the movie Elrond's butt into action. He would do anything for his daughter, and that includes talking Aragorn out of his doubts.

Who says that Elrond is speaking the exact truth and not distorting the facts to talk Aragorn into getting his butt into gear?

What I like about this movie (just like the book) is that you can read different things into the actions and motivations of the characters. Superb.

[Amanaduial the archer]

Originally posted by Essex
Who says that Elrond is speaking the exact truth and not distorting the facts to talk Aragorn into getting his butt into gear?

Well, it worked didn't it?

[Enorëiel]

I agree with the idea that because Arwen is now "mortal" that her fate is tied to all the other motrals but still, I'm sure I wasn't the only one who when Elrond said that her fate was tied to the ring mentally (or physically) jumped up and screamed - "WHAT?!" After hearing others explanations I've calmed a bit but still, where in the...?

[Maerbenn]

Arwen's life is tied to the fate of the Ring in the book too, though not directly:

The Ring is destroyed => Vilya loses its preserving power => Elrond grows tired of Middle-earth and leaves => Arwen must make the decision to go with him or not, thus making her choice of fate.