Where do Hobbits come from - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ainaserkewen · 11-20-2003, 10:48 AM

I know, it's chromosome number thing. If the animals are to produce offspring, they need to have the same number of chromosomes to do it. However, I didn't know that 10 years ago. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Elladan and Elrohir · 11-21-2003, 11:03 PM

I guess I don't have a problem with Hobbits being descended from Men, since that's obviously what Tolkien said (and he IS the final authority on all things Ea), but why then could they (Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo) resist the power of the Ring longer than anyone of any other race could???

Any ideas?

Finwe · 11-22-2003, 08:02 AM

Hobbits were naturally more doughty creatures. They didn't have that desire for power, and deep-seated greed, that is in the hearts of most Men. They were a pastoral folk, and appreciated the simple things in life. But, these seemingly bucolic people, once roused, could be daunting foes. If they had to defend their country, and their loved ones, most Hobbits would have no qualms about picking up weapons and fighting. They fought, when they absolutely needed to. They also had a deep-seated strength that characterizes all of their "heroes." Once that little spark was ignited, nothing short of death could turn them back from their goal. As for resisting the Ring, they just merely had different priorities. The Ring works through greed, deceit, and desire for power. The Hobbits just didn't have that (except for a couple like Lotho and Ted [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] ). They just didn't worry about that, and thus, the Ring didn't really have much of a channel to work with, unless that person bore it over time, in the case of Smeagol, Bilbo, and Frodo.

Elladan and Elrohir · 11-22-2003, 10:12 PM

Yes, I understand that perfectly, but where did that come from if they were basically Men?

Lyta_Underhill · 11-22-2003, 10:46 PM

I think I liked Bethberry's theory the best! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Just think what kind of roosts there would have to be outside the Gamgees' house! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

As for why hobbits could resist the Ring longer, it is hard to say, but perhaps it is related to their smallness. The Ring gives power to each according to his measure, and the hobbits as a rule just didn't measure very high. Maybe, for this reason, they couldn't conceive of using it for the gaining of power. They just never needed it or even gave it a thought.

Another idea that is kicking around in the vastness of the empty space in my brain is that perhaps their separate and unique physical characteristics were concentrated by the relative isolation of the cultures and societies in Middle Earth in the Third Age. Simply, they interbred, perhaps with these three variations on a theme (Harfoot, Stoor and Fallohide) in close proximity, creating a pocket of Men of VERY different characteristics.

I believe Tolkien had said something to the effect that Smeagol and Deagol were ancestors of what became the Stoors, or something like that, so the Stoors had ancestors as recently as 500 years earlier. Perhaps they only had a limited gene pool and the hobbit variation on Men was the result of a few dominant strains concentrated in a certain geography.

Just a few thoughts! Now back to musing on big, hairy feet... :P

Cheers,
Lyta (who has little hairy feet)

[ November 22, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

[ November 23, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

yavanna II · 11-24-2003, 05:41 AM

I agree with whoever it was that said hobbitses were cross-breeds of men & dwarves. Maybe it was like this: a dwarf married a curly-haired woman, but all their offspring had beards on their feet not on their heads. Somewhere in JRRT's books it said that hobbits were smaller than the bearded dwarves. Or maybe a Vala made them as a mockery of Aule & Iluvatar. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Eol Telemnar · 12-12-2003, 06:11 PM

i think that hobbits came from men. The hairy feet, Maybe it's because they don't wear shoes, that's how I would explain it. It's like those chinese people wearing tiny shoes, which make their feet not grow. In the same way, Hobbits don't wear shoes, which allow a lot of hair to grow, and their feet grow much faster. And it is also because they are from the north [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-12-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

And it is also because they are from the north

I refer you to my previous response on that issue. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Eol Telemnar · 12-12-2003, 07:04 PM

Men, They came from men. They have hairy feet because they are from the north and they also did not wear shoes, which allowed their feet to grow much bigger, and hair to grow freely. I hope I was at least a little help [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Eol Telemnar · 12-12-2003, 07:06 PM

[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] OOOOOPPPPPS!!! sorry for that! I did not notice my reply in there, (thought it did not enter in) So sorry about the double thing. ill be more careful in the future. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Firefoot · 12-13-2003, 09:48 AM

I'm really not sure about where hobbits came from - I've had the same question myself actually, but the idea that they came from men seems rather strange. A lot of their characteristics (both physical and their personalities) don't match up at all.

I do have an idea about why they weren't in records though. In TTT when Gandalf, Theoden, Eomer, Aragorn, etc come to Isengard and meet Merry and Pippin Merry comments that the Rohirrim were the only people he had met that knew of Hobbits. Eomer says that they didn't know any tales and that all they knew was that they were a small people who lived in holes. He said that it was said that they didn't do much and could disappear in a twinkling. This could be a reason that there were no records of them if no one thought that they did anything.

Gil-numen · 12-25-2003, 08:12 PM

The Hobbits(kuduk) cama from the Vales of Anduin and there they would come into contact with Dwarves, Noldo, Sindar, Avari, and the Northmen. They aren't descended from Rohirrim because the most of the hobbits came across the Misty Mts. around the 1100's TA and the Eotheod went to the Vales of Anduin around 1977 TA.

------------------------------
"Show it to me"
Thingol to Beren

Thulorongil · 12-26-2003, 11:24 AM

There also weren't many actual records of hobbits because most people just thought of them as a fairy tale. If you recall, the Gondorians were surprised to see a halfling in person. They thought they didn't really exist...
hmm...humans thinking that fantasy folk are just fantasy folk and then finding out that they're real and just lived in a distant corner of the world...

Finwe · 12-26-2003, 05:33 PM

Gil-numen, the Hobbits could have still been related to the Eotheod. Just because their respective "territories" were settled at different times, doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't related.

11-20-2003, 10:48 AM	#41
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	I know, it's chromosome number thing. If the animals are to produce offspring, they need to have the same number of chromosomes to do it. However, I didn't know that 10 years ago. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

11-21-2003, 11:03 PM	#42
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I guess I don't have a problem with Hobbits being descended from Men, since that's obviously what Tolkien said (and he IS the final authority on all things Ea), but why then could they (Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo) resist the power of the Ring longer than anyone of any other race could??? Any ideas? __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

11-22-2003, 08:02 AM	#43
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Hobbits were naturally more doughty creatures. They didn't have that desire for power, and deep-seated greed, that is in the hearts of most Men. They were a pastoral folk, and appreciated the simple things in life. But, these seemingly bucolic people, once roused, could be daunting foes. If they had to defend their country, and their loved ones, most Hobbits would have no qualms about picking up weapons and fighting. They fought, when they absolutely needed to. They also had a deep-seated strength that characterizes all of their "heroes." Once that little spark was ignited, nothing short of death could turn them back from their goal. As for resisting the Ring, they just merely had different priorities. The Ring works through greed, deceit, and desire for power. The Hobbits just didn't have that (except for a couple like Lotho and Ted [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] ). They just didn't worry about that, and thus, the Ring didn't really have much of a channel to work with, unless that person bore it over time, in the case of Smeagol, Bilbo, and Frodo. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

11-22-2003, 10:12 PM	#44
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Yes, I understand that perfectly, but where did that come from if they were basically Men? __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

11-22-2003, 10:46 PM	#45
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	I think I liked Bethberry's theory the best! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Just think what kind of roosts there would have to be outside the Gamgees' house! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] As for why hobbits could resist the Ring longer, it is hard to say, but perhaps it is related to their smallness. The Ring gives power to each according to his measure, and the hobbits as a rule just didn't measure very high. Maybe, for this reason, they couldn't conceive of using it for the gaining of power. They just never needed it or even gave it a thought. Another idea that is kicking around in the vastness of the empty space in my brain is that perhaps their separate and unique physical characteristics were concentrated by the relative isolation of the cultures and societies in Middle Earth in the Third Age. Simply, they interbred, perhaps with these three variations on a theme (Harfoot, Stoor and Fallohide) in close proximity, creating a pocket of Men of VERY different characteristics. I believe Tolkien had said something to the effect that Smeagol and Deagol were ancestors of what became the Stoors, or something like that, so the Stoors had ancestors as recently as 500 years earlier. Perhaps they only had a limited gene pool and the hobbit variation on Men was the result of a few dominant strains concentrated in a certain geography. Just a few thoughts! Now back to musing on big, hairy feet... :P Cheers, Lyta (who has little hairy feet) [ November 22, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ] [ November 23, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ] __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

11-24-2003, 05:41 AM	#46
yavanna II Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in my own little world Posts: 142	I agree with whoever it was that said hobbitses were cross-breeds of men & dwarves. Maybe it was like this: a dwarf married a curly-haired woman, but all their offspring had beards on their feet not on their heads. Somewhere in JRRT's books it said that hobbits were smaller than the bearded dwarves. Or maybe a Vala made them as a mockery of Aule & Iluvatar. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

12-12-2003, 06:11 PM	#47
Eol Telemnar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At my house, on my computer (where else would I be? Posts: 89	i think that hobbits came from men. The hairy feet, Maybe it's because they don't wear shoes, that's how I would explain it. It's like those chinese people wearing tiny shoes, which make their feet not grow. In the same way, Hobbits don't wear shoes, which allow a lot of hair to grow, and their feet grow much faster. And it is also because they are from the north [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Eol Telemnar, The Dark Elf , Has Spoken, Heed My words well. Peace go with you.

12-12-2003, 07:04 PM	#49
Eol Telemnar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At my house, on my computer (where else would I be? Posts: 89	Men, They came from men. They have hairy feet because they are from the north and they also did not wear shoes, which allowed their feet to grow much bigger, and hair to grow freely. I hope I was at least a little help [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Eol Telemnar, The Dark Elf , Has Spoken, Heed My words well. Peace go with you.

12-12-2003, 07:06 PM	#50
Eol Telemnar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At my house, on my computer (where else would I be? Posts: 89	[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] OOOOOPPPPPS!!! sorry for that! I did not notice my reply in there, (thought it did not enter in) So sorry about the double thing. ill be more careful in the future. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ Eol Telemnar, The Dark Elf , Has Spoken, Heed My words well. Peace go with you.

12-13-2003, 09:48 AM	#51
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	I'm really not sure about where hobbits came from - I've had the same question myself actually, but the idea that they came from men seems rather strange. A lot of their characteristics (both physical and their personalities) don't match up at all. I do have an idea about why they weren't in records though. In TTT when Gandalf, Theoden, Eomer, Aragorn, etc come to Isengard and meet Merry and Pippin Merry comments that the Rohirrim were the only people he had met that knew of Hobbits. Eomer says that they didn't know any tales and that all they knew was that they were a small people who lived in holes. He said that it was said that they didn't do much and could disappear in a twinkling. This could be a reason that there were no records of them if no one thought that they did anything.

12-25-2003, 08:12 PM	#52
Gil-numen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cuivienen...hanging out with the fading Elves Posts: 36	The Hobbits(kuduk) cama from the Vales of Anduin and there they would come into contact with Dwarves, Noldo, Sindar, Avari, and the Northmen. They aren't descended from Rohirrim because the most of the hobbits came across the Misty Mts. around the 1100's TA and the Eotheod went to the Vales of Anduin around 1977 TA. ------------------------------ "Show it to me" Thingol to Beren

12-26-2003, 11:24 AM	#53
Thulorongil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: wherever the road may take me Posts: 97	There also weren't many actual records of hobbits because most people just thought of them as a fairy tale. If you recall, the Gondorians were surprised to see a halfling in person. They thought they didn't really exist... hmm...humans thinking that fantasy folk are just fantasy folk and then finding out that they're real and just lived in a distant corner of the world... __________________ I sit beside the fire and think of people long ago, And people who will see a world that I shall never know.

12-26-2003, 05:33 PM	#54
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Gil-numen, the Hobbits could have still been related to the Eotheod. Just because their respective "territories" were settled at different times, doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't related. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.