The Scouring of the Shire -- Why Not??? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

HCIsland · 10-08-2003, 10:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What do I mean though? I do think that Helm's Deep had slightly too much time spent on it and I would rather that Frodo' capture had ended the film. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fair enough and in a sense I agree with you. My biggest issue with Towers is that the central plot (Frodo taking the Ring to Mordor) doesn't advance that much. We start the film with Frodo and Sam on their way to Mordor, they pick up Gollum about 15 minutes in and by the end of the film we have Frodo, Sam and Gollum on their way to Mordor.PJ tried to cover this up by making the film more about saving Rohan, but that's less than satisfying as LotR is not about Rohan. That's a side story. Putting Shelob at the end of Towers would have fixed this but at the expense of what? I think the argument that Frodo and Sam don't have enough to do in King is justifiable and frankly, if PJ was going to sacrifice one of his films to this I would rather it be the middle one.H.C.

Essex · 10-08-2003, 11:19 AM

But if Jackson DID follow the books and finish TT as Tolkien did, then we would have been given the best cliffhanger in Cinema History."Frodo was alive but taken by the Enemy"Jackson has countered this by stating that we have to wait and see why he left the shelob scene for ROTK. He says we'll understand when we see the movie...... hmmmm...Plus, isn't it strange that Jackson's film ends at EXACTLY the same point as Bashki's cartoon for Frodo/Sam/Gollum and Rohan?

ArathorofBarahir · 10-08-2003, 01:43 PM

I agree with you on the biggest cliffhanger in cinema history, however I think the reason that the Scouring of the Shire was cut out of ROTK was because PJ wanted to keep the running time down. But hey that is just my opinion.

Lost One · 10-08-2003, 02:49 PM

If PJ was just interested in keeping TT running time down, then he could have jettisoned the gratuitous 'Aragorn MIA' section. I would agree that he made this decision to build up the Frodo/Sam action in ROTK. Once they are clear of Shelob, Cirith Ungol and Gollum, then it's just a slow plod to the Cracks of Doom, and all the narrative interest would be with the other characters back in Gondor. We'll need to see the result, of course, but it might well be a wise decision.

**The Saucepan Man** · 10-08-2003, 06:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But if Jackson DID follow the books and finish TT as Tolkien did, then we would have been given the best cliffhanger in Cinema History."Frodo was alive but taken by the Enemy" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I can see your point, Essex, but I nevertheless think that it was the right decision to move Shelob to RotK. I gave my reasons for this in a rather lengthy post on the <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002331" TARGET=_blank>What would you as a director have done better? </A> thread. But since my post unfortunately seems to have killed that thread off ( ), I will repeat them here: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Of course, many would say that Shelob should have been in the film for this very purpose. But it seems to me that there was never going to be enough time have the Hobbits and Gollum ascend to the pass of Cirith Ungol, for them to see the Black Army marching from Minas Morgul, and to have their encounter with Shelob. Even if there had been no journey to Osgiliath, the scenes at Henneth Annun would have needed extending, to build up Faramir’s character. To have Shelob tacked onto the end of the film would mean that she would, in my view, have insufficient screen time to do her justice. Also, it makes more sense for the audience to see Sauron’s forces, led by the Witch King, march down from Minas Morgul at the beginning of RotK, since it is the precursor to the Seige of Minas Tirith and the Battle of Pelennor Fields. And I still think that Shelob is going to provide a fantastic curtain raiser for the third film. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, I realise that I am wandering rather off-topic here. But moving Shelob to RotK is relevant to the running-time for that film and does therefore have some bearing on the question of whether or not the Scouring should have been in TTT.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-09-2003, 03:28 PM

I want a five hour movie.

10-08-2003, 10:28 AM	#41
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What do I mean though? I do think that Helm's Deep had slightly too much time spent on it and I would rather that Frodo' capture had ended the film. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Fair enough and in a sense I agree with you. My biggest issue with Towers is that the central plot (Frodo taking the Ring to Mordor) doesn't advance that much. We start the film with Frodo and Sam on their way to Mordor, they pick up Gollum about 15 minutes in and by the end of the film we have Frodo, Sam and Gollum on their way to Mordor.<P>PJ tried to cover this up by making the film more about saving Rohan, but that's less than satisfying as LotR is not about Rohan. That's a side story. Putting Shelob at the end of Towers would have fixed this but at the expense of what? I think the argument that Frodo and Sam don't have enough to do in King is justifiable and frankly, if PJ was going to sacrifice one of his films to this I would rather it be the middle one.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

10-08-2003, 11:19 AM	#42
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	But if Jackson DID follow the books and finish TT as Tolkien did, then we would have been given the best cliffhanger in Cinema History.<P>"Frodo was alive but taken by the Enemy"<P>Jackson has countered this by stating that we have to wait and see why he left the shelob scene for ROTK. He says we'll understand when we see the movie...... hmmmm...<P>Plus, isn't it strange that Jackson's film ends at EXACTLY the same point as Bashki's cartoon for Frodo/Sam/Gollum and Rohan?

10-08-2003, 01:43 PM	#43
ArathorofBarahir Wight Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crickhallow Posts: 247	I agree with you on the biggest cliffhanger in cinema history, however I think the reason that the Scouring of the Shire was cut out of ROTK was because PJ wanted to keep the running time down. But hey that is just my opinion. __________________ King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me.

10-08-2003, 06:34 PM	#45
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But if Jackson DID follow the books and finish TT as Tolkien did, then we would have been given the best cliffhanger in Cinema History.<P>"Frodo was alive but taken by the Enemy" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can see your point, Essex, but I nevertheless think that it was the right decision to move Shelob to RotK. I gave my reasons for this in a rather lengthy post on the <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002331" TARGET=_blank>What would you as a director have done better? </A> thread. But since my post unfortunately seems to have killed that thread off ( ), I will repeat them here:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Of course, many would say that Shelob should have been in the film for this very purpose. But it seems to me that there was never going to be enough time have the Hobbits and Gollum ascend to the pass of Cirith Ungol, for them to see the Black Army marching from Minas Morgul, and to have their encounter with Shelob. Even if there had been no journey to Osgiliath, the scenes at Henneth Annun would have needed extending, to build up Faramir’s character. To have Shelob tacked onto the end of the film would mean that she would, in my view, have insufficient screen time to do her justice. Also, it makes more sense for the audience to see Sauron’s forces, led by the Witch King, march down from Minas Morgul at the beginning of RotK, since it is the precursor to the Seige of Minas Tirith and the Battle of Pelennor Fields. And I still think that Shelob is going to provide a fantastic curtain raiser for the third film. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry, I realise that I am wandering rather off-topic here. But moving Shelob to RotK is relevant to the running-time for that film and does therefore have <I>some</I> bearing on the question of whether or not the Scouring should have been in TTT. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

10-09-2003, 03:28 PM	#46
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I want a five hour movie.<P> __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-08-2003, 02:49 PM	#44
Lost One Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 67	If PJ was just interested in keeping TT running time down, then he could have jettisoned the gratuitous 'Aragorn MIA' section. I would agree that he made this decision to build up the Frodo/Sam action in ROTK. Once they are clear of Shelob, Cirith Ungol and Gollum, then it's just a slow plod to the Cracks of Doom, and all the narrative interest would be with the other characters back in Gondor. We'll need to see the result, of course, but it might well be a wise decision.