Tolkien anti-disney?

[Light of Eärendil]

I've always wondered why Disney never made The Lord Of The Rings into a movie. Then I read somewhere that he stated in hs last will that Disney should never hold the rights to his books.<P>Why do you think he hated Disney so much?<BR>Is it because of the childish and cheesy way they used to tell fantasy stories?<P>Namarië

[HCIsland]

Disney's adaptations of fairy tales often bear little resemblence to their originals. They're not even interested in capturing the spirit of themes of these stories and will change anything to suit their purpose.<P>Tolkien writting that in his will is interesting, but I was always under the impression that Disney owned the rights for quite a while before Tolkien died.<P>As for why Disney never made a film - the only thing I have to say is, thank God.<P>H.C.

[Lush]

If Disney made the films, Bill the Pony and Sauron would have had musical numbers. <P>"I know that your powers of retention<BR>Are as wet as an Orcish backside..."<P>*shudders dramatically*

[Iarwain]

We did have <P>"Frodo of the nine fingers,<BR>and the ring of <I>doom</I>!"<P>all the same, didn't we? <P>I think Tolkien had some issues with a lot of people during his lifetime, and I believe I recall Disney wanting to buy the rights...<P>Iarwain

[Elennar Starfire]

Well, Disney <I>can</I> make good movies (PotC!) but they do have a tendancy towards cheesiness.

I couldn't believe pirates of the carribean was from disney until I saw the little castle in the advertisement. It seems more like a new line cinema movie to me. Anyway back to lotr, I think if disney made the movie they would condense all the movies into one two hour movie, good thing it never was

[Light of Eärendil]

Thank God indeed!!<BR>I remember telling a friend that I was so grateful that neither Hollywood nor Disney had put their defecating hands upon those wonderful books.<BR>Then when I read about Tolkien hatred towards Disney, I felt glad that he thought as I do. <P>Namarië.

[The Saucepan Man]

I remebered seeing this excerpt from Tolkien's Letters on the <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002328&p=" TARGET=_blank>Gems from the Letters</A> thread and thought that it seemed pertinent to the current discussion:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It might be advisable, rather than lose the American interest, to let the Americans do what seems good to them - as long as it was possible (I should like to add) to veto anything from or influenced by the Disney studios (for all whose works I have a heartfelt loathing). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And by way of explanation from the Squatter of Amon Rûdh, who posted the excerpt:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> From Letter #13, to C.A. Furth at Allan and Unwin, dated 13th May 1937. Tolkien's comments refer to a suggestion from Houghton Mifflin, relayed by Allan and Unwin, that American artists be engaged to produce additional illustrations for the first US edition of The Hobbit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Quite clearly though, Tolkien was no fan of Mr Disney.

[Noxomanus]

Good thing it never happened.....but Disney can surely make some verrrry good bad guys!<BR>Jafar & Scar are my alltime favorite bad guys. (in cartoons)

[Niluial]

I have nothing against Disney I just think they have lost their touch. I mean come on look at their classics… Alice in Wonderland (my all time favourite), Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, The Lion King and there are many more. I believe Disney has lost its magic, look at that one movie it was Lelo and Stich (something like that) and The Lion King two (I cant think of the other names of the other bad movies)… they were really boring and like you all said very cheesy. So imagine they got their hands on LotR now (or any of the other great Tolkien books). But I could never see them doing it and if they do I doubt it will be worth seeing.

[Failivrin]

i don't think that disney has lost touch becuase they still make some excellent films - PotC, mulan, the lion king- but i htink everyone remembers snow white and the classics for what they're not. i watched snow white the other day and was rather disappointed. it has gone overboard on the sequels though<P>mulan is a very moving film and for me the lion king is too (my father is dead) and whenever i watch the bit where he sees mustafa in the sky i end up crying. they also DO make great baddies- scar, the guy in mulan, the wicked witch in snow white<P>however, i am VERY glad they did not make LOTR. haha, i think tolkien was a very funny guy; what with stipulating disney have no input in a movie, that letter to a scriptwriter etc

[Niluial]

Well I mean they have lost their touch now. There is another great film Mulan! I loved it. And I did mention the Lion King. But did you watch The Lion King Two? It was rather boring and Lelo and Stich! And there are others. The point I was trying to make was I wouldn’t want Disney to get their hands on it because they will probably make it boring or not make it amazing. Well that’s just my view…<P>~ Niluial

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I am very glad that Disney never got their hands on LotR. Remember the Bakshi version? Well I daresay it would have been better animated (unless they did it PotC style) but I think they would totally massacre the story line. They changed so many of the classic fairy tales like that. And I wonder who would have been the irritating comic relief character (there's gotta be one!)? <BR>But I may be biased because I don't really like Disney. Everything is so commercialised when a new film comes out (adverts everywhere, irritating McDonalds adverts etc) and the songs just annoy me. The only Disney films that I sort of like are the Lion King and Mulan. <BR>I really don't think that Disney would be able to do it justice.

[Failivrin]

you are right niluial, i never watched lion king two or any of the other sequels because i thought they would be horrific and i never saw lilo and stitch wither. maybe you're right...

[Gorwingel]

Remember Disney did have their chance to make LOTR. The first person who wanted to turn the books into the movies was Harvey Weinstein, whose Miramax studio is a part of the Disney empire. But one of the reasons that it never got made by them was that the high up management at Disney would not put up the money to make a decent adaptation.<P>Does anyone wonder though if Tolkien ever even viewed any of Disney's films? I doesn't look like he was an avid moviegoer (enlighten me if I am wrong). But, it wouldn't have been a good idea, if you look at many of the fairy tales that they have brought to the screen you would find out that the originals were very different, and much, much darker.

[Diamond18]

I think I read somewhere that Tolkien saw Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. I'm not sure though, don't quote me on that. <P>Here's a thread you might enjoy:<BR><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=000358" TARGET=_blank>Walt Disney Pictures Presents...</A><p>[ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Brinniel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> if you look at many of the fairy tales that they have brought to the screen you would find out that the originals were very different, and much, much darker.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with you there. I was horrified when I found out from other people what <I>really</I> happened to the Little Mermaid. <P>I was a huge fan of Disney when I was young. Most of my clothing included pictures of Disney princesses and I dressed up as Jasmine multiple times. But today, I hardly like Disney. The only animated films that remain my favorites are Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Mulan, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet (which is rather a surprise). Because I babysit, I've seen several Disney sequels. I actually find them rather entertaining because they're so ridiculous.<P>My opinion is that Disney is falling apart. My sister believes the reason why they work with Pixar on movies is because they can't come up with anymore good ones on their own, which is probably true. Though, I've heard rumors that Pixar is leaving Disney... <P>I've also noticed that lately Disney's been doing better at their non-animated films. Look at how many good non-animated Disney films have been made in the past five years: Parent Trap (remake), Princess Diaries, PotC, Freaky Friday, and Holes (though, I'm not sure if that one's Disney).<P>I am thankful Disney never made LOTR a film; animated or not. Their films are aimed towards children and teens. LOTR is meant for teens and adults. The entire plot would've been simplified so that a younger audience could understand. Not to mention, the ending would've been much too happy.

[Niluial]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> My opinion is that Disney is falling apart. My sister believes the reason why they work with Pixar on movies is because they can't come up with anymore good ones on their own, which is probably true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yea it is probably true!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Though, I've heard rumors that Pixar is leaving Disney... <BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I also heard that!<P>Niluial

[Shy Hobbit]

Pocahontas is American history and they couldn't even respect that enough to keep it factual. I can't imagine how they would have butchered Tolkien's work. Actually, I'd rather not think about it <P>As for PotC, it was a very enjoyable movie, but it did have it's cheesy moments, though they were balanced enough and so obvious that they made fun of themselves and were part of the film's enjoyment. Such things do not belong in LotR, no no no. <P>Besides, the last thing I wanna see are my beloved characters with huge, annoying, out of place song numbers Can you imagine the ringwraiths singing on weathertop? <P>"We march, we march, we march to kill the hobbits!...."

[Imladris]

Disney...o boy. They have just justified their existance by making PotC. But I think that another reason Tolkien didn't like Disney (now I can't remember if Tolkien actually said this or if this was a speculation of my Mom's) is because they made their characters very cartoonish or parody-ish. Take for, example, Seven White and the Seven Dwarves. Can you really imagine Thorin, Balin, Gimli, or any of the dwarves looking like Grumpy and Dopey? The Seven Dwarves are comical. They don't look like real dwarves. They're soft and cudly. I don't think Tolkien would have liked the contorted forms.

[Shy Hobbit]

I'm not sure contorted would even be the word. If Disney got ahold of LotR, I think they would have taken the same route as they did with Robin Hood and made all the characters animals of some sort that wear clothes and walk around like people I was never much a fan of that style. I guess I've grown out of Disney, I used to like most of the films, but now I can't stand them. Perhaps I've developed a finer taste in films?

[arianrod]

If Disney got a hold of LotR... *shudders* well, I don't even want to think about it. Ho boy, would Disney have some fun with Bombadil... and they'd probably come out with endless, increasingly more painful sequels. I can see the posters now: "Lord of the Rings II: Frodo and Friends Celebrate Christmas!" Yeehaw!

[Rose Cotton]

I'm afraid I must disagree with you all.<P>I was brought up on Disney movies and as a result they are some of my favorites. I just can't hold a grudge agaist them. I mean, think about it. You're all teanagers or young adults. When you look at these movies you see the shadow of a greater tale. But when someone watches them who dosn't know where the story came from they find it exciting and enchanting. Disney takes great stories and formats them for the young audiences. For example: What 7 year old wants to hear that Ariel dies at the end of "The Little Mermaid"? The movies are tailored so they are suited for children.<P>As for the singing. I happen to be a huge fan of Musicals so I have no problem with it. In fact, I find Disney music to be very good.<P>I'm not saying that Disney should have done LotR. The material in the story is better depicted in it's original form. However, I think that if given the chance Disney could have pulled off a great "Hobbit" movie. It has all the fanciful, adventurous stuff the company craves.<P>Please don't condem Disney. <P>P.S. I LOVE LILO AND STICH!

[Esgallhugwen]

Well, well, well.... I have probably grown out of Disney slightly but I'm absolutely thankful that disney didn't get it's corruptive hands on it!! Whether to make a cartoon of it or live action. That would be like selling Tolkien's soul! <P>As I have said and many others to work for disney particularly as an animator is very much like selling your soul. They own you, they own everything you do or say or wear. Disney is too corrupt and manipulative to take on a project like that. Disney has made good movies and I love PotC (if they were the ones that made i don't know) but that is because I admire Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom very much, not because of the company that makes it,but all industries have their reputations. (I do not mean to insult any body )<P>P.S. Although I've already done more harm then could I percieve some will be quite cross with me<p>[ September 21, 2003: Message edited by: Esgallhugwen ]

[arianrod]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think that if given the chance Disney could have pulled off a great "Hobbit" movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now, "The Hobbit" is a slightly different story. I think I could tolerate a Disney "Hobbit", though I wouldn't be too confident in the accuracy of the final result. It's just that LotR is too serious a story to be manipulated into a Disney cartoon. It's not a children's book, and shouldn't be molded into a children's movie.

[Lathriel]

I always liked the singing in the animated Disney movies but I seriously can't imagine Frodo singing about the ring or Saruman singing to his army before they march of to Helm's Deep.<P>LOTR is just to grown-up a story for it to be made into an animated movie.<BR>Besides Disney has lost its touch. I love all their animated movies up till Mulan(except for hercules)<BR>After that it became cheesiness with weak story lines.<P>I would go into mourning if disney came produced LOTR

[samrohan]

Thank you Tolkien. I think selling the rights to Disney would have made me go off my most favoritestttt book of all time.

[samrohan]

Just imagine the Uruks dancing and prancing around holding hands to music while the Balrog is seen to be twirling aound fountains in a tutu...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It seems to me that a company that could even consider making a version of <I>The Hunchback of Notre Dame</I> for children should be kept as far away from Tolkien's work as possible. They have a habit of doing to fairy-stories exactly what Tolkien deplored: they change them to be pretty, dainty and inoffensive; they remove any darkness or deeper meaning and effectively turn the story into escapist drivel. <P>What I find so very annoying is that they clearly adopt famous myths, classic literature and fairy tales for the title alone, then alter them to suit their corporate image, a policy that can only be motivated by profit. All things considered, each Disney version of any half-way decent story is another nail in the coffin of culture.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Is it at all possible that it didn't matter whether Disney pictures were good or not to Tolkien? Maybe it was Walt Disney the man and his 'reputation' that turned a man like Tolkien off the idea, regardless of the cartoons.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

The reference to Disney in that letter is the only one in Tolkien's published correspondance detailed enough to allow me to draw a conclusion. His reference to "the Disney studios" and specific requirement that the illustrations for <I>The Hobbit</I> in no way resemble their work imply to me that he objected on artistic grounds to the very appearance of whatever Disney films he happened to have seen. I don't believe that he ever mentions Walt Disney personally in any of his published letters.<p>[ September 22, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]