Boromirs Death

[Grimkû the Blood-Axe]

hey all,<P>about the death of boromir in the fellowship. what is the name of the orc leader who kills him with arrows and is soon after be-headed by strider.<P>some background information on this character would be nice.

[Lord of Angmar]

Lurtz

[Daisy Brambleburr]

He was called Lurtz. He was an invention of Peter Jackson, because he wasn't in the books. As far as I can tell, he was the Uruk-Hai chief. There isn't that much background information to be honest, he wasn't really devloped that much. I think his soul purpose was to create a nice finale fight for Aragorn.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Daisy, you are right. The only reason Lurtz was in the film was to create the <I>slightest</I> of revenge scenes for Aragorn. I thought it was pointless and probably made the scene less dramatic.

[Knight of Gondor]

Say hi to your fans, Lurtz. Lurtz, don't be so cranky!<BR> <BR> <p>[ September 14, 2003: Message edited by: Knight of Gondor ]

[samrohan]

I think Lurtz is a lovely character. PJ had to create him to give the Uruks a bit more credibility.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

If they had even mentioned Ugluk and how he was the biggest, nastiest Orc or whatever, it would have given them just as much credibility as Lurtz did.

[Liriodendron]

Hi Lurtz! <P> Lurtz was a nice vechicle for movie Saruman's "campy" posturing. Why they had to create him, I don't know, but the shots of Saruman admiring his creation were rich! "Whom do you serve!" <BR>His name (Lurtz) conjurs up images of those purple and green antique cars at the amusement park Haunted House rides. I got the impression Lurtz was a way for the "army created solely for the destruction of men" movie plot to be displayed. Simple and scary...Lurtz! <p>[ September 15, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[HCIsland]

I liked Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. He worked for me. I think having a personified orc certainly helped the audience in hating them, and Saruman, even more.<P>Using Ugluk would have been interesting but his death at the hands of the Rohorrim is rather impersonal and would have been less than satisfying when compared to Lurtz's death. From a plotting point, it's kind of neat to imagine the orcs losing their strongest leader at Amon Hen, leading to the squabling we see in TTT.<P>Also, I love that moment when Aragorn delivers the death blow and Lurtz grabs the sword and pulls it deeper, while defiantly roaring in Aragorn's face.<P>H.C.<p>[ September 15, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Grimkû the Blood-Axe]

if lurtz is killed which he obviously is, what is the name of the orc that leads the army at Helm's Deep?<P>By the way, the goblins found in the misty mountains, what is the difference between them and the orcs?

[HCIsland]

Goblins are really smaller orcs.<P>As for the name of the commander of the Uruk-hai at Helm's Deep, who knows? I don't believed he is named in the book either.<P>H.C.

[The Only Real Estel]

I was under the impression that goblins are orcs (at some point in the hobbit & the other books a refrence is made to taller goblins, so I'm not sure if 'smaller orcs' would be accurate or not). I figured orcs & goblins were the same, & uruk-hai were bigger, badder orcs.

[HCIsland]

Your probably right. The two terms are more or less synonymous. Bigger and smaller, I guess, is really how I kinda sorted them out.<P>Really it's just Tolkien deciding to change the term he used. In The Hobbit he called them goblins but in LotR he called them orcs.<P>H.C.<p>[ September 16, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

HC, I see your point about the squabbling of the Orcs. But in the books it was a case of too many leaders rather than not enough. It would also have worked.<P>I would also dispute your claim that Lurtz's death at the hands of Aragorn worked better than Ugluk's death at the hands of the Rohirrim. I know the fight between the Rohirrim and the Uruk-hai was very disorganised in the film. It would still have been great to see the two leaders going at it one-on-one, with Eomer slaying Ugluk as a finale.<P>You mention how the small-scale battle would not have been as personal as Aragorn vs Lurtz. However, I think that, following Boromir's mortal wounds, the payoff for the audience was too soon. Instead of going off to find the Hobbits, Aragorn would then be going of to find the Hobbits PLUS avenging the death of Boromir, increasing (if only slightly) the effect of the cliffhanger. I know that, in the end, Aragorn didn't get at the Orc, but the audience isn't to know this. Anyway, the guy who did get the Orc turned out to be fast friends with Aragorn.<P>In the film, the audience went through this thought process.<P>1) I hope that Orc gets his comeuppance.<P>and about 5 seconds later....<P>2) Oh, there it is!<P>Over and done with too quickly for my liking. But then, I do love a good revenge story! So while I see your point about an immediate payoff for the Boromir fans, I still prefer the way Tolkien made it.

[Beanamir of Gondor]

I still thought it was awesome that they added more lines to Boromir's rather messy death than Tolkien actually wrote. EG 'They took the little ones!' [evil cackle].<BR>And plus altogether Boromir turned out happier and more kindly to the little ones than in the book.... ps has anybody read the 'very secret diaries of the fellowship'?<P>oh well.<P>Viva la Gondor!

[Knight of Gondor]

Actually, Peter Jackson said in the commentary that Lurtz was created so that it wasn't just a random Uruk-hai that killed Boromir - it was a little more honorable to be killed by the great Uruk "general" as it were. That way, it was from someone we already met, knew, and hated. Also a little more personification I guess, for Aragorn to avenge. Still, why I wonder do they name him Lurtz and that name is never named in the movie itself?

[Lyta_Underhill]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Peter Jackson said in the commentary that Lurtz was created so that it wasn't just a random Uruk-hai that killed Boromir - it was a little more honorable to be killed by the great Uruk "general" as it were.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That makes perfect sense, <B>Knight of Gondor</B>. In fact, that was the significance I got out of the scene when I first watched it and one of the reasons Boromir's death meant more to me in the movie than in the book. Mostly, though, it is the visible struggle Boromir is undergoing throughout that brings me closer to him. He was a braggart in the book FOTR and, although I felt bad he had to die, I felt his shortcomings to be emblematic of the weakness of Men and he to be a symbol of their fallen state. It is better that PJ emphasizes his strength and the fact that he fell to the power of the Ring despite his great strength, making his character all the more tragic and identifiable.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> why I wonder do they name him Lurtz and that name is never named in the movie itself?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you think THAT's bad, just look at all the carefully named characters in a Star Wars movie! They don't name half of them, and yet they all have names and even histories in some cases...then again, I haven't watched the FOTR credits too closely. Maybe every single hobbit at Bilbo's party is named. Who knows? I'll have to go back and watch when I've got the patience. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>altogether Boromir turned out happier and more kindly to the little ones than in the book....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Welcome to the Downs, <B>Beanamir</B>! And thanks for pointing that out! PJ takes pains to show Boromir especially taking interest in Merry and Pippin. It illustrates a point that Tolkien makes through Pippin when he pledges himself to Denethor, "remembering Boromir the Brave." I cannot wait to see Pippin's Minas Tirith scenes in ROTK, and I am quite hopeful they will be powerful, as PJ has set up this visible tie between Merry and (especially) Pippin and Boromir. And yes, I have read the VSD's! ("...thought the Horn of Gondor was supposed to summon the armies of the West...") <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta<p>[ September 23, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

[samrohan]

I don't agree with " Goblins are Orcs". Orcs were a creation of Tolkien, whereas goblins are much older than that are not attributed to JRRT.<P>Orcs specifically are created for war and serving their master. Goblins are indigenous and may serve their master but only under force.<P>That is my view.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But Lurtz did not have to be created. The Uruk's already had a captain, his name was Ugluk.<P>Nevertheless, I can't understand why you are implying that Boromir's death in the books, at the hands of several random Orc archers, had any less honour attached to it.

[HCIsland]

As I mentioned above, Ugluk's death at the hands of the Rohirrim wouldn't be nearly as personal as Lurtz's death at the hands of Aragorn. Also Ugluk's death is not until the next movie while Lurtz's death happens while passions are still high.<P>Now if you wanted to, you could have had Ugluk die at the hands of Aragorn and then someone else leading the orcs in Towers, but I suspect that would have generated more ire then they way it was done.<P>H.C.

[Alatariel]

PJ added the scene with Lurtz to bring Aragorn into the whole senario. In the book, he is not involved with the fight whatsoever...it is over before he gets there. I agree that PJ was playing to his audience - we Americans are all about instant gratification. It was a good climax, and I personally enjoyed it. As for the name "Lurtz," I believe it started as a joke in the Weta studios when they were creating him, and it just stuck.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>ps has anybody read the 'very secret diaries of the fellowship'? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have!!! Hilarious, aren't they... <P>I thought the Lurtz story worked out OK, although the Uglúk story would have worked out better IMO.<P>And I think goblins are synonymous with orcs. What do you mean when you say goblins aren't attributed to JRRT? He wrote about them in the Hobbit, didn't he? And when he decided to link the Hobbit to Middle Earth he just changed the name, or so I thought.<p>[ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 ]