The Stars shine brighter in the Undying Lands? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Daegwenn · 04-08-2002, 07:17 PM

This is somewhat of a Silmarillion question...I have just started reading the books and I have a couple of questions...although I know I should wait until I finish the whole book...but I am a little curious.

Anyways, I know this question may sound insignificant to others, but does the sun shine in the Undying Lands? Or do the stars shine only in the U-L all the time?

~~Daegwenn

Mhoram · 04-08-2002, 10:45 PM

hmmm, well if I understand your question right... No, the sun and stars are equally bright for both UL and ME.

Voronwe · 04-09-2002, 04:25 AM

Both the sun and the stars shire on Middle Earth and on Aman (the Undying lands). The stars shine equally brightly in both places, but the sun, and probably the moon, appears brighter in Valinor:

Quote:

Still therefore, after the Long Night, the light of Valinor was greater and fairer than upon Middle-earth; for the Sun rested there, and the lights of heaven drew nearer to Earth in that region.

Daegwenn · 04-09-2002, 02:11 PM

*slaps self in head* I am prone to have my 'Homer moments' as my friends call them... Sorry, I was rather vague in my question.

What I meant was, does the sun shine in the U-L? I know that they had the two trees, that Melkor and Ungoliant (or whatever her name is...the big spider thingie...)destroyed and they were the source of light throughout the U-L with the exception of the stars.

~~Daegwenn

Aralaithiel · 04-09-2002, 02:31 PM

I would answer yes, based on Voronwë's quote from the book. Hey, they're the Valar! They can have as much light as they want! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Mhoram · 04-09-2002, 02:43 PM

Yes, after the trees are destroyed the Valar create the Sun and Moon and these two light all of Arda, ME and Aman(UL), very simular to the way our sun and moon work.

04-14-2002, 09:46 AM

I'm reading The Silmarillion at the moment as well (about 100 pages in) and I also had a question relating to this.

The way I read it, it seemed to me that stars didn't shine in Aman. I thought this because of the following two quotes:

Quote:

And Ulmo granted their request, and at his bidding Osse made fast the island and rooted it to the foundations of the sea. Ulmo did this more readily, for he understood the hearts of the Teleri...

Quote:

There the Teleri abode as they wished under the stars of heaven, and yet within sight of Aman

I'm sure im wrong about the stars not shining in Aman, but that's just the way I understood those two quotes. My interpretation of it was that when it says Ulmo "understood the hearts of the Teleri", it meant that he understood their need for looking at the stars. And so by staying on Eressea, they were getting the best of both worlds - being "under the stars of heaven, and yet within sight of Aman".

As I said, I imagine i'm wrong about this, so please could someone try and clear it up. And also give me the proper reason for why the Teleri stayed on Tol Eressea, and what it means when it sais Ulmo "understood the hearts of the Teleri".

Thanks [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Carannillion · 04-20-2002, 06:27 PM

Actually, you may not be too far off target. The Stars may not shine in Aman/UL as they do in ME, but also, when it comes to Ulmo understanding the harts of the Teleri, he understood their relationship to the Sea, and their need to be next to it. The Teleri were sort of "Sea-Elves". It's been a while since the last time I read the Sil, but I think that's how I interpreted it.

04-08-2002, 07:17 PM	#1
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	The Stars shine brighter in the Undying Lands? This is somewhat of a Silmarillion question...I have just started reading the books and I have a couple of questions...although I know I should wait until I finish the whole book...but I am a little curious. Anyways, I know this question may sound insignificant to others, but does the sun shine in the Undying Lands? Or do the stars shine only in the U-L all the time? ~~Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

04-09-2002, 02:11 PM	#4
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	slaps self in head I am prone to have my 'Homer moments' as my friends call them... Sorry, I was rather vague in my question. What I meant was, does the sun shine in the U-L? I know that they had the two trees, that Melkor and Ungoliant (or whatever her name is...the big spider thingie...)destroyed and they were the source of light throughout the U-L with the exception of the stars. ~~Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

04-09-2002, 02:31 PM	#5
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	I would answer yes, based on Voronwë's quote from the book. Hey, they're the Valar! They can have as much light as they want! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

04-20-2002, 06:27 PM	#8
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	Actually, you may not be too far off target. The Stars may not shine in Aman/UL as they do in ME, but also, when it comes to Ulmo understanding the harts of the Teleri, he understood their relationship to the Sea, and their need to be next to it. The Teleri were sort of "Sea-Elves". It's been a while since the last time I read the Sil, but I think that's how I interpreted it. __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...

04-08-2002, 10:45 PM	#2
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	hmmm, well if I understand your question right... No, the sun and stars are equally bright for both UL and ME.

04-09-2002, 02:43 PM	#6
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	Yes, after the trees are destroyed the Valar create the Sun and Moon and these two light all of Arda, ME and Aman(UL), very simular to the way our sun and moon work.