Wild men - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-16-2003, 07:29 AM

Who are those guys with mud on their faces, in TTT? Woses or Dunlendnings? Either way, they were not correctly portayed.

Diamond18 · 01-16-2003, 11:37 AM

Dunlendings. And do you think PJ wants people on his back about having dark skinned bad guys in his movie? I'm sure he didn't want the backlash of having swarthy people attacking blonde haired, blue eyed people. There's already discontented rumblings about the orcs.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-16-2003, 02:22 PM

They are Dunlendings in the book. But, I was looking at a TTT picture book in the shop the other day and the text accompanying the pictures of Saruman's "Wild Men" referred to them as Woses. Is that just an error in the picture book, or were they supposed to be Woses in the film (the credits might reveal)? I ask, because I have heard that Ghan-buri-ghan is in the cast list for Rotk.

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-16-2003, 02:26 PM

Well, If P.J hadn't noticed:1) The Harfoots have nut brown skin.2) The men of Bree are dark skinned.Well there are many, many good dark skinned people in M-E!

Diamond18 · 01-17-2003, 12:17 AM

Well, regardless of that, it still wouldn't look good for PJ to have the bad, mean dark Dunlendings attack the poor, innocent fair Rohirrim. He wouldn't have time to go into detail about why the Dunlendings are serving Saruman, or the aftermath of Helm's Deep where the Dunlendings are being pardoned. So, if you can't take time to go into that sort of depth for marginal characters, it's better not to make such a blatant steriotype of dark skin = baddies, light = good.As to Bree...this is a whole nother discussion, but PJ made Bree look sinister and dangerous, so to put some dark skinned people there would have had the same effect.And since Tolkien must have mentioned the Harfoots' hue all of once, it's easily overlooked. PJ probably just formed his own mental picture, without meaning to slight anybody. After all, Tolkien didn't go on and on about Sam being dark. Or maybe I'm just making excuses because I overlooked it, too. In my own defense, I never form that strong of a mental picture for the particular hair color, skin tone, etc. of characters in stories, anyway. Not even when they're my own stories—if you get one hint as to their appearence from me you're lucky. (Hey, I'm working on it, honest).Anyway, what am I rambling about? Oh yes: PJ is put in a tight spot by Tolkien, with ol' Tollers stronger descriptions of the bad dark guys than the good dark guys. I fully expected the Southrons, Easterlings, and Dunlendings to be fairer than in the book. Now, if Gahn-buri-Gahn and his people are white as snow I'd be surprised.Oh, and just to add, it makes sense for those Wild Men to be Dunlendings because in FotR Legolas says, "Crebain from Dunland!" So Dunland is included in the landscape of Middle-earth for the movie.

01-17-2003, 06:45 AM

First of all I seem to recall that the Dunlendings were a major part of the assualt on Helm's Deep. He wrote that they had sable shields and high helms but i saw none of that.

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-18-2003, 10:13 AM

They also missed out Erkenbard and the Huorns.

doug*platypus · 01-18-2003, 09:37 PM

I always pictured the Dunlendings as caucasian as well, especially considering their geographical location. I thought the only dark-skinned people were from Harad? Can anyone actually back up the black Dunlending theory?I fail to see the logic in the Dunlending scene in the movie. They rabbit on and on about 'saving time' (the false idol Saturn), and then introduce the Dunlendings, only to have them not show up at Helm's Deep. Add to this the fact that Saruman's servants are all orcs (apart from Wormtongue), unlike the book, and you're really just portraying him wrongly. I think they should have either use the Dunlendings as they were intended, or not introduced them at all.

01-16-2003, 07:29 AM	#1
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Wild men Who are those guys with mud on their faces, in TTT? Woses or Dunlendnings? Either way, they were not correctly portayed. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-16-2003, 11:37 AM	#2
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Dunlendings. And do you think PJ wants people on his back about having dark skinned bad guys in his movie? I'm sure he didn't want the backlash of having swarthy people attacking blonde haired, blue eyed people. There's already discontented rumblings about the orcs. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-16-2003, 02:22 PM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	They are Dunlendings in the book. But, I was looking at a TTT picture book in the shop the other day and the text accompanying the pictures of Saruman's "Wild Men" referred to them as Woses. <P>Is that just an error in the picture book, or were they supposed to be Woses in the film (the credits might reveal)? I ask, because I have heard that Ghan-buri-ghan is in the cast list for Rotk. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-16-2003, 02:26 PM	#4
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Well, If P.J hadn't noticed:<P>1) The Harfoots have nut brown skin.<P>2) The men of Bree are dark skinned.<P>Well there are many, many good dark skinned people in M-E! __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-17-2003, 12:17 AM	#5
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Well, regardless of that, it still wouldn't look good for PJ to have the bad, mean dark Dunlendings attack the poor, innocent fair Rohirrim. He wouldn't have time to go into detail about why the Dunlendings are serving Saruman, or the aftermath of Helm's Deep where the Dunlendings are being pardoned. So, if you can't take time to go into that sort of depth for marginal characters, it's better not to make such a blatant steriotype of dark skin = baddies, light = good.<P>As to Bree...this is a whole nother discussion, but PJ made Bree look sinister and dangerous, so to put some dark skinned people there would have had the same effect.<P>And since Tolkien must have mentioned the Harfoots' hue all of once, it's easily overlooked. PJ probably just formed his own mental picture, without meaning to slight anybody. After all, Tolkien didn't go on and on about Sam being dark. Or maybe I'm just making excuses because I overlooked it, too. In my own defense, I never form that strong of a mental picture for the particular hair color, skin tone, etc. of characters in stories, anyway. Not even when they're my own stories—if you get one hint as to their appearence from me you're lucky. (Hey, I'm working on it, honest).<P>Anyway, what am I rambling about? Oh yes: PJ is put in a tight spot by Tolkien, with ol' Tollers stronger descriptions of the bad dark guys than the good dark guys. I fully expected the Southrons, Easterlings, and Dunlendings to be fairer than in the book. Now, if Gahn-buri-Gahn and his people are white as snow I'd be surprised.<P>Oh, and just to add, it makes sense for those Wild Men to be Dunlendings because in FotR Legolas says, "Crebain from Dunland!" So Dunland is included in the landscape of Middle-earth for the movie. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-17-2003, 06:45 AM	#6
VercingetoriX Guest Posts: n/a	First of all I seem to recall that the Dunlendings were a major part of the assualt on Helm's Deep. He wrote that they had sable shields and high helms but i saw none of that.

01-18-2003, 10:13 AM	#7
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	They also missed out Erkenbard and the Huorns. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-18-2003, 09:37 PM	#8
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I always pictured the Dunlendings as caucasian as well, especially considering their geographical location. I thought the only dark-skinned people were from Harad? Can anyone actually back up the black Dunlending theory?<P>I fail to see the logic in the Dunlending scene in the movie. They rabbit <B>on</B> and <B>on</B> about 'saving time' (the false idol Saturn), and then introduce the Dunlendings, only to have them not show up at Helm's Deep. Add to this the fact that Saruman's servants are all orcs (apart from Wormtongue), unlike the book, and you're really just portraying him wrongly. I think they should have either use the Dunlendings as they were intended, or not introduced them at all. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.