QUESTION: aragorn and arwen(elf chick) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

GARY-the-White · 01-12-2003, 06:34 PM

When arwen gives aragorn the necklace does it give aragorn the life of an immortal? and arwen looses it? or not wouldnt she still be immortal if shes an elf? Also other then frodo what w9ould this movie have been like if even 1 of the cast had been differant i for one think it would have been totally differant , without aragorn legolas and gandalf i dont think i woulda like the movie

Mattius · 01-12-2003, 06:40 PM

the neclace significes arwen becoming a mortal- aragorn stays mortal and the two wed when aragorn becomes king elessar

HCIsland · 01-12-2003, 07:05 PM

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any specific power in the Evenstar. I believe it is purely symbolic.H.C.

Gorwingel · 01-12-2003, 07:09 PM

Now I just think it is symbolic. When I first saw the film (before I had read the books and became an amazing Tolkien expert) I too though the giving of the Evenstar to Aragorn made him immortal. But now I understand, what you learn in the short course of a year.

InklingElf · 01-12-2003, 07:14 PM

Arwen's evenstar necklace is a symboslism of her pledge of her love to Aragorn-The necklace may show a glow of radiance but that doesn't mean it makes you immortal...

GARY-the-White · 01-12-2003, 08:22 PM

so is arwen still immortal or no?

Arwen Evenstar the Fair · 01-12-2003, 08:58 PM

she is immortal in the fact that she can still chose to change her mind, and sail into the undying lands and remain immortal. When she weds Aragron, then her choice to be mortal will take effect.

Lindril Arvilya · 01-12-2003, 09:21 PM

Who else shuddered seeing the Evenstar, the beauty of the Elves, the gem of Arwen, in the foul claws of an orc?

mollecon · 01-12-2003, 09:21 PM

Her choice takes effect the minute she dies - that is when she chooses (mentally) to follow her loved one.

Elven-Maiden · 01-12-2003, 09:24 PM

Good question, Gary the White, but for the sake of those whose mother tongue is not English, could we please stick to conventional English, with proper grammar? I have no idea what you are asking in your second question.But don't feel bad, your post is actually one of the better ones I've seen.

GARY-the-White · 01-12-2003, 10:09 PM

Someone explain the necklace ordeal completely because the whole thing is fuzzy in my head, she chooses a mortal life with aragorn instead of immortal but how is it possible if shes an elf she wont die but she gives him the necklace and he says u cant give this to me it has to mean it makes him immortal or something or he wouldnt think it was such a big deal

Calenamarthiel · 01-13-2003, 04:56 AM

From what I understnad from the appendix, Arwen is also bound to Elrond. Elrond is half-elven, and he was asked to make a choice: to be of elf-kind or human-kind. He chooses to become an elf. His descendants can remain on Middle-Earth and remain elves while he is still on Middle Earth himself, but I think if he leaves and any of his descendants stay behind, it is the equivalent of their choosing a mortal life. I'm not too sure about this, though. It does say that Arwen dies in Lothlorien shortly after the death of Aragorn. Concerning the necklace, I agree that it's more symbolic than anhthing else. After all, elves are born immortal - their immortality is not tied up with a necklace or with anything else. Just a thought.

Dimannûnien · 01-13-2003, 05:10 AM

Elves can die from fire, steel or grief. Is the implication that Arwen dies from grief a year after the death of Aragorn/Elessar? Perhaps that is where her mortality lies, and Elrond knows that the strength of love will lead to this.

Elven-Maiden · 01-13-2003, 10:05 AM

The Necklace Thing: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Evenstar The surname of Arwen: Title of Arwen, Queen to Aragorn II Elessar, referring not only to her radiant beauty, but also to her descent: the evening star was the light of the last Silmaril, bound to the brow of her grandfather Eärendil. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (Encyclopedia of Arda)Her necklace was a very pretty heirloom with more symbolism than practicality. She gave it to Aragorn as a symbol of her undying love. Giving it to him, she promised to stay with him, to bind herself to him. But the necklace had nothing to do with it. She says something to the effect that no boat would take her [to the Gray Havens] anymore, because she made her choice. The necklace was like a wedding band; serves as a promise, but has no real power.Hope that helps.

Alaggaeriel · 01-13-2003, 11:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Her necklace was a very pretty heirloom with more symbolism than practicality. She gave it to Aragorn as a symbol of her undying love. Giving it to him, she promised to stay with him, to bind herself to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kinda like an engagement ring.

Legolas · 01-13-2003, 11:26 AM

It would be in your best interest to read this post and ignore all of those above it concerning immortality and mortality.Arwen isn't immortal to begin with.She and her family are half-elven - their ancestry is of both man and elf.Eru (God - Creator of Middle-earth) gave the half-elven the choice - they could choose the fate of man or the fate of elves. Mortality or immortality.Her father, Elrond, chose to be immortal, and thus, he would sail across the sea with the elves.Arwen had until Elrond left to decide. When he left, she chose mortal as opposed to immortal, obviously.Elves cannot "give up" their immortality. Nor can a jewel give immortality. Only Eru himself can give or take immortality.He only did this in three instances: Elrond's family/parents, Tuor, and Luthien.If you're interested in hearing more about the specifics, don't understand, or want to see where Tolkien said this stuff, you can check out the article I've written on the matter here: <A HREF="http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp</A>[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Lalaith · 01-13-2003, 11:35 AM

Forgive me for butting in. While I am not sure of the significance of the Peter Jackson movie jewel, in Tolkien's work the jewel given to Aragorn by Arwen is called the Elessar, and has both power and significance. (Although no immortality is involved.) In the Lost Tales, there are two versions of its origin. The first Elessar was made in Gondolin during the First Age, where Idril Celebrindal wore it. The one given to Aragorn by Arwen was either the original jewel, brought back from Valinor by Gandalf, or it was another Elessar, made by the elf Celebrimbor for Galadriel. Galadriel used it to keep Lorien safe, before she was given one of the Eleven rings. She then gave it to her daughter Celebrian who in turn gave it to her daughter Arwen. Aragorn took his name from the jewel - he was crowned King Elessar.

HCIsland · 01-13-2003, 01:15 PM

Thanks Laliath, but isn't it in the appendix refered to as the Evenstar (being Arwen's last name as well). I would have to check and I could be wrong. Some of the Lost Tales stuff is contradictory, so we have to be careful. I think the LoTR appendix superseeds it.Either way, the film makers are not trying to attach any powers beyond the symbolic to the necklace. In the directors/writers commentary during the scene where Arwen gives it to Aragorn, they make this clear.H.C.

InklingElf · 01-13-2003, 01:30 PM

exactly!

LePetitChoux · 01-13-2003, 01:33 PM

I thought that Arwen gave Frodo the Evenstar, and Aragorn some other jewel...or have I got the completely wrong end of the stick?

InklingElf · 01-13-2003, 01:36 PM

I think you got it wrong... Where'd you get that idea from anyway?

HCIsland · 01-13-2003, 02:01 PM

You got it right. It's one of the differences between the movie and the book.H.C.

Lalaith · 01-13-2003, 02:34 PM

Arwen's gift of the Elessar, its descent from Celebrian and Galadriel, and Aragorn's subsequent crowning as King Elessar, is all in LOTR. The only ambiguity, as recorded in Lost Tales, is whether the Elessar given to Aragorn was the original made in Gondolin or a second stone made in Eregion.

GARY-the-White · 01-13-2003, 03:40 PM

*** aragorn dies?????? *** please explain he kiks *** i couldnt stand seeing him die, thx for the eplainations but plz explain aragorn

Galadrie1 · 01-13-2003, 03:50 PM

Of course Aragorn dies, he's mortal! You won't see it in the movies, though. You can read about his death in Appendix A - The Story of Aragorn and Arwen in the Lord of the Rings (sorry if that's not exactly what it's called, I don't have my books with me).[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: Galadrie1 ]

HCIsland · 01-13-2003, 06:11 PM

Okay, I'm confused, but I've got it figured out now. Yes, I am slow on the uptake sometimes.I think we are confusing two different pieces jewelry here.The Elessar is given to Aragorn in Lothlorien by Galadriel on behalf of Arwen.The white jewel that Arwen gives Frodo towards the end of RoTK is different.Listen two their two discriptions.Lord of the Rings - Book 2, Chapter 8: Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings ... This is the Elessar.Lord of the Rings - Book 6, Chapter 6: And she took a white gem like a star that lay upon her breast hanging upon a silver chain, and she set the chain about Frodo's neck. This is what is given to Frodo by Arwen. I called this the Evenstar, but I can't find anywhere where it is called that, so it just might be my overactive imagination.The question is, which of these is the gem Arwen gave Aragorn in the Fellowship movie? From the physical description, it is the same gem she gave Frodo in the book. Does anyone know the answer to this?H.C.

King_Elessar · 01-14-2003, 11:08 AM

Before Arwen gives Aragorn the Evenstar she is immortal, but when she weds Aragorn and becomes his wife, she is then mortal, she is then Queen Evenstar, and Aragorn is King Elessar (yay!!!!! ) Bye, Elessar

Silmarien · 01-14-2003, 09:47 PM

When all the Fellowship get their gifts in Lorien. Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar described by HCIsland this greatly enhances his healing powers and is the only token he wears when he goes into Gondor to heal Faramir, Eowyn and Merry. Also I think they will show Aragorn's death beacause Liv Tyler has said her favourite Elvish line is what Arwen says just before he dies. Hope this helps rather than adding to confusion. Silmarien.

Galadrie1 · 01-15-2003, 03:12 PM

OK, Arwen doesn't give Aragorn the Evenstar in the book! If Aragorn does somehow end up with it, it doesn't talk about Arwen giving it to him in the book. The only time it mentions Arwen giving the Evenstar to anyone is close to the end of Return of the King, when she gives it to Frodo. The whole "Arwen giving Aragorn the Evenstar as a representaion of her immortality" thing is just from the movies, right?

Isenna · 01-16-2003, 02:21 PM

Yeah, I think PJ should have explained totally, or left it alone. Legalos, thank you! I'm just going to except that and let everyone else debate this.If Arwen chooses mortality, why are they talking about her wandering ME until it dies or something like that?[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Isenna ]

Galadrie1 · 01-17-2003, 09:26 PM

Yeah, in the movie of TTT, Elrond says stuff like "If you choose to be with Aragorn, you will have to wander this world forever.... See all your loved ones die...." All the while, I was thinking, "OK, Elrond, there's just one tiny problem there. If she chooses Aragorn, she dies, too!!!"

01-12-2003, 06:34 PM	#1
GARY-the-White Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13	QUESTION: aragorn and arwen(elf chick) When arwen gives aragorn the necklace does it give aragorn the life of an immortal? and arwen looses it? or not wouldnt she still be immortal if shes an elf? <BR>Also other then frodo what w9ould this movie have been like if even 1 of the cast had been differant i for one think it would have been totally differant , without aragorn legolas and gandalf i dont think i woulda like the movie __________________ "These are my people and i shall die as one of them!!" I am GaRYtheWHiTe brother of Gandalf and if by my life or death i can protect you i will GãR¥théWH¡Të

01-12-2003, 06:40 PM	#2
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	the neclace significes arwen becoming a mortal- aragorn stays mortal and the two wed when aragorn becomes king elessar __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

01-12-2003, 07:05 PM	#3
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any specific power in the Evenstar. I believe it is purely symbolic.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-12-2003, 07:09 PM	#4
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Now I just think it is symbolic. When I first saw the film (before I had read the books and became an amazing Tolkien expert) I too though the giving of the Evenstar to Aragorn made him immortal. But now I understand, what you learn in the short course of a year. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-12-2003, 07:14 PM	#5
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	Arwen's evenstar necklace <I>is</I> a symboslism of her pledge of her love to Aragorn-The necklace may show a glow of radiance but that doesn't mean it makes you immortal...

01-12-2003, 08:22 PM	#6
GARY-the-White Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13	so is arwen still immortal or no? __________________ "These are my people and i shall die as one of them!!" I am GaRYtheWHiTe brother of Gandalf and if by my life or death i can protect you i will GãR¥théWH¡Të

01-12-2003, 08:58 PM	#7
Arwen Evenstar the Fair Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 235	she is immortal in the fact that she can still chose to change her mind, and sail into the undying lands and remain immortal. When she weds Aragron, then her choice to be mortal will take effect. __________________ ~Arwen~

01-12-2003, 09:21 PM	#8
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	Who else shuddered seeing the Evenstar, the beauty of the Elves, the gem of Arwen, in the foul claws of an orc? __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

01-12-2003, 09:21 PM	#9
mollecon Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 188	Her choice takes effect the minute she dies - that is when she chooses (mentally) to follow her loved one.

01-12-2003, 09:24 PM	#10
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	Good question, Gary the White, but for the sake of those whose mother tongue is not English, could we please stick to conventional English, with proper grammar? I have no idea what you are asking in your second question.<P>But don't feel bad, your post is actually one of the better ones I've seen. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

01-12-2003, 10:09 PM	#11
GARY-the-White Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13	Someone explain the necklace ordeal completely because the whole thing is fuzzy in my head, she chooses a mortal life with aragorn instead of immortal but how is it possible if shes an elf she wont die but she gives him the necklace and he says u cant give this to me it has to mean it makes him immortal or something or he wouldnt think it was such a big deal __________________ "These are my people and i shall die as one of them!!" I am GaRYtheWHiTe brother of Gandalf and if by my life or death i can protect you i will GãR¥théWH¡Të

01-13-2003, 04:56 AM	#12
Calenamarthiel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Philippines Posts: 24	From what I understnad from the appendix, Arwen is also bound to Elrond. Elrond is half-elven, and he was asked to make a choice: to be of elf-kind or human-kind. He chooses to become an elf. His descendants can remain on Middle-Earth and remain elves while he is still on Middle Earth himself, but I think if he leaves and any of his descendants stay behind, it is the equivalent of their choosing a mortal life. I'm not too sure about this, though. It does say that Arwen dies in Lothlorien shortly after the death of Aragorn. Concerning the necklace, I agree that it's more symbolic than anhthing else. After all, elves are born immortal - their immortality is not tied up with a necklace or with anything else. Just a thought. __________________ "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost."

01-13-2003, 05:10 AM	#13
Dimannûnien Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 36	Elves can die from fire, steel or grief. Is the implication that Arwen dies from grief a year after the death of Aragorn/Elessar? Perhaps that is where her mortality lies, and Elrond knows that the strength of love will lead to this.

01-13-2003, 10:05 AM	#14
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	<B>The Necklace Thing:</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Evenstar<BR>The surname of Arwen: Title of Arwen, Queen to Aragorn II Elessar, referring not only to her radiant beauty, but also to her descent: the evening star was the light of the last Silmaril, bound to the brow of her grandfather Eärendil. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (Encyclopedia of Arda)<P>Her necklace was a very pretty heirloom with more symbolism than practicality. She gave it to Aragorn as a symbol of her undying love. Giving it to him, she promised to stay with him, to bind herself to him. But the necklace had nothing to do with it. She says something to the effect that no boat would take her [to the Gray Havens] anymore, because she made her choice. The necklace was like a wedding band; serves as a promise, but has no real power.<P>Hope that helps. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

01-13-2003, 11:15 AM	#15
Alaggaeriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 35	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Her necklace was a very pretty heirloom with more symbolism than practicality. She gave it to Aragorn as a symbol of her undying love. Giving it to him, she promised to stay with him, to bind herself to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Kinda like an engagement ring. __________________ Speak, Friend, and Enter.

01-13-2003, 11:26 AM	#16
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	It would be in your best interest to read this post and ignore all of those above it concerning immortality and mortality.<P>Arwen isn't immortal to begin with.<P>She and her family are half-elven - their ancestry is of both man and elf.<P>Eru (God - Creator of Middle-earth) gave the half-elven the choice - they could choose the fate of man or the fate of elves. Mortality or immortality.<P>Her father, Elrond, chose to be immortal, and thus, he would sail across the sea with the elves.<P>Arwen had until Elrond left to decide. When he left, she chose mortal as opposed to immortal, obviously.<P>Elves cannot "give up" their immortality. Nor can a jewel give immortality. Only Eru himself can give or take immortality.<P>He only did this in three instances: Elrond's family/parents, Tuor, and Luthien.<P>If you're interested in hearing more about the specifics, don't understand, or want to see where Tolkien said this stuff, you can check out the article I've written on the matter here:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp</A><p>[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-13-2003, 11:35 AM	#17
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Forgive me for butting in. <BR>While I am not sure of the significance of the Peter Jackson movie jewel, in Tolkien's work the jewel given to Aragorn by Arwen is called the Elessar, and has both power and significance. (Although no immortality is involved.) <BR>In the Lost Tales, there are two versions of its origin. The first Elessar was made in Gondolin during the First Age, where Idril Celebrindal wore it. The one given to Aragorn by Arwen was either the original jewel, brought back from Valinor by Gandalf, or it was another Elessar, made by the elf Celebrimbor for Galadriel. Galadriel used it to keep Lorien safe, before she was given one of the Eleven rings. She then gave it to her daughter Celebrian who in turn gave it to her daughter Arwen. <BR>Aragorn took his name from the jewel - he was crowned King Elessar. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-13-2003, 01:15 PM	#18
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Thanks Laliath, but isn't it in the appendix refered to as the Evenstar (being Arwen's last name as well). I would have to check and I could be wrong. Some of the Lost Tales stuff is contradictory, so we have to be careful. I think the LoTR appendix superseeds it.<P>Either way, the film makers are not trying to attach any powers beyond the symbolic to the necklace. In the directors/writers commentary during the scene where Arwen gives it to Aragorn, they make this clear.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-13-2003, 01:30 PM	#19
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	exactly!

01-13-2003, 01:33 PM	#20
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	I thought that Arwen gave <I>Frodo</I> the Evenstar, and Aragorn some other jewel...or have I got the completely wrong end of the stick? __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

01-13-2003, 01:36 PM	#21
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	I think you got it wrong... Where'd you get that idea from anyway?

01-13-2003, 02:01 PM	#22
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	You got it right. It's one of the differences between the movie and the book.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-13-2003, 02:34 PM	#23
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Arwen's gift of the Elessar, its descent from Celebrian and Galadriel, and Aragorn's subsequent crowning as King Elessar, is all in LOTR.<BR>The only ambiguity, as recorded in Lost Tales, is whether the Elessar given to Aragorn was the original made in Gondolin or a second stone made in Eregion. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-13-2003, 03:40 PM	#24
GARY-the-White Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13	* aragorn dies?????? * please explain he kiks *** i couldnt stand seeing him die, thx for the eplainations but plz explain aragorn __________________ "These are my people and i shall die as one of them!!" I am GaRYtheWHiTe brother of Gandalf and if by my life or death i can protect you i will GãR¥théWH¡Të

01-13-2003, 03:50 PM	#25
Galadrie1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The wrong place at the wrong time. Posts: 385	Of course Aragorn dies, he's mortal! You won't see it in the movies, though. You can read about his death in Appendix A - <I>The Story of Aragorn and Arwen</I> in the Lord of the Rings (sorry if that's not exactly what it's called, I don't have my books with me).<p>[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: Galadrie1 ] __________________ "For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel."

01-13-2003, 06:11 PM	#26
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Okay, I'm confused, but I've got it figured out now. Yes, I am slow on the uptake sometimes.<P>I think we are confusing two different pieces jewelry here.<P>The Elessar is given to Aragorn in Lothlorien by Galadriel on behalf of Arwen.<P>The white jewel that Arwen gives Frodo towards the end of RoTK is different.<P>Listen two their two discriptions.<P>Lord of the Rings - Book 2, Chapter 8: <I>Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings ...</I> This is the Elessar.<P>Lord of the Rings - Book 6, Chapter 6: <I>And she took a white gem like a star that lay upon her breast hanging upon a silver chain, and she set the chain about Frodo's neck.</I> This is what is given to Frodo by Arwen. I called this the Evenstar, but I can't find anywhere where it is called that, so it just might be my overactive imagination.<P>The question is, which of these is the gem Arwen gave Aragorn in the Fellowship movie? From the physical description, it is the same gem she gave Frodo in the book. Does anyone know the answer to this?<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-14-2003, 11:08 AM	#27
King_Elessar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Minas Tirith, City of the Kings. Posts: 57	Before Arwen gives Aragorn the Evenstar she is immortal, but when she weds Aragorn and becomes his wife, she is then mortal, she is then Queen Evenstar, and Aragorn is King Elessar (yay!!!!! ) <P>Bye, Elessar __________________ I see in your eyes, the same fear, that would take the heart of me. A day may come, when the courage of men fails. When we forsake our friends, and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day. This day...we fight!

01-14-2003, 09:47 PM	#28
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	When all the Fellowship get their gifts in Lorien. Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar described by HCIsland this greatly enhances his healing powers and is the only token he wears when he goes into Gondor to heal Faramir, Eowyn and Merry.<BR>Also I think they will show Aragorn's death beacause Liv Tyler has said her favourite Elvish line is what Arwen says just before he dies. Hope this helps rather than adding to confusion.<BR> Silmarien. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

01-15-2003, 03:12 PM	#29
Galadrie1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The wrong place at the wrong time. Posts: 385	OK, Arwen doesn't give Aragorn the Evenstar in the book! If Aragorn does somehow end up with it, it doesn't talk about Arwen giving it to him in the book. The only time it mentions Arwen giving the Evenstar to anyone is close to the end of Return of the King, when she gives it to Frodo. The whole "Arwen giving Aragorn the Evenstar as a representaion of her immortality" thing is just from the movies, right? __________________ "For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel."

01-16-2003, 02:21 PM	#30
Isenna Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 13	Yeah, I think PJ should have explained totally, or left it alone. <P>Legalos, thank you! I'm just going to except that and let everyone else debate this.<P>If Arwen chooses mortality, why are they talking about her wandering ME until it dies or something like that?<p>[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Isenna ]

01-17-2003, 09:26 PM	#31
Galadrie1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The wrong place at the wrong time. Posts: 385	Yeah, in the movie of TTT, Elrond says stuff like "If you choose to be with Aragorn, you will have to wander this world forever.... See all your loved ones die...." All the while, I was thinking, "OK, Elrond, there's just one <I>tiny</I> problem there. If she chooses Aragorn, <I>she dies, too!!!</I>" __________________ "For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel."