*TTT - The Battle of Helm's Deep* - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Merigrin · 12-22-2002, 06:12 PM

For horse-lord's was it me or throughout the film, didnt you expect to see more horses? Also the only problem I had with the battle was when Gandalf and the rest charged down that hill and jumped into the orcs, horse's would never jump such a thick, solid barrier like that, they would try to go round it. Napoleon (sp?) used squares to upset the cavalry long ago, and the same would of happened here. Also when Aragorn etc galloped out trampling the orc's, which would be understandable if the where at full gallop and the orcs where dead, and that hadnt seen them until the last second. But it was an amazing battle, and it made you gasp. And I enjoyed it.

Bêthberry · 12-23-2002, 12:11 PM

Legolas skate-boarding down the stairs was another miscue for me. Perhaps I can turn to some of Tolkien's words in an effort to explain what, for me, is missing in The Battle of Helm's Deep.The battle is not supposed to be fun for the participants, particularly the leaders. Here is what Tolkien says about the incursion of the chivalric ideal into the heroic ideal. I think it works equally for this intrusion of comedic moment. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>... he (Beorhtnoth) was responsible for all the men under him, not to throw away their lives except with one object, the defence of the realm from an implacable foe....It was heroic of him and his men to fight, to annihilation if necessary, in the attempt to destroy or hold off the invaders. It was wholly unfitting that he should treat a desperate battle with this sole real object as a sporting match, to the ruin of his purpose and duty. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Homecoming of BeorhtnothBethberry

Cherie Centaur · 12-23-2002, 12:50 PM

I'm not much of a carnage and battle fan but I liked this one, though I have major problems with everyone in Edoras being there and I won't get into the whole Elf army thing. I also hated how they demoted Gimli to comic relief, though I laughed at every joke. Also, Eomer saving the day at the last minute was, after certain misrepresented ideas about a certain Gondor captain, too much to handle. Sorry Turoch, I'm not as big a fan of Eomer as you.[ December 23, 2002: Message edited by: Cherie Centaur ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-23-2002, 12:54 PM

I am struggling to accept that some people don't love Eomer.

Cherie Centaur · 12-24-2002, 01:22 PM

I like Eomer, I just don't adore him. He's a little too rough and edgy for me. Though the whole at-the-last-minute-old-western-calvery thing was a bit much.

Túroch · 12-24-2002, 04:37 PM

Do remeber that the whole at-the-last-minute-old-western-calvery thing was a contrivance of PJ not Tolkien. I so wish Eomer had been given his proper role at helms deep.

Pukel-Man · 12-24-2002, 04:48 PM

Shield-surfing-complete crap.

Lily Bracegirdle · 09-01-2003, 06:22 PM

When I watched the movie the first time, it didn't bother me so much, but now that I've seen it a few times, I'm getting more and more puzzled. At the end of the battle, when Aragorn is convincing Theoden to "ride out and meet them," there are no horses in the hall. But seconds later, there *are* horses in the hall, ready to be ridden forth to glory. How did they get there? Also, when the Deeping Wall and gate are breached, you see that to get into or out of the hall one must traverse at least one flight of stairs. Horses don't do stairs. And they certainly don't charge down them.So I ask: is there some sort of horse elevator that I'm unaware of?Cheers! -Lily

Ophelia · 09-07-2003, 11:55 AM

Ofcourse there were many bad shots and mistakes . But I just like battle sceenes so I like Helm's Deep only couldn't it been a bit shorter ? I mean , PJ would have more time to show Shelob or something .

12-22-2002, 06:12 PM	#41
Merigrin Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2002 Location: England Posts: 23	For horse-lord's was it me or throughout the film, didnt you expect to see <I>more</I> horses? <BR>Also the only problem I had with the battle was when Gandalf and the rest charged down that hill and jumped into the orcs, horse's would never jump such a thick, solid barrier like that, they would try to go round it. Napoleon (sp?) used squares to upset the cavalry long ago, and the same would of happened here. <BR>Also when Aragorn etc galloped out trampling the orc's, which would be understandable if the where at full gallop and the orcs where dead, and that hadnt seen them until the last second. <BR>But it was an amazing battle, and it made you gasp. And I enjoyed it. __________________ "Master Merry's being squeezed in a crack!" Sam, FotR "Ai! ai!" wailed Legolas. "A balrog! A balrog is come!" FotR "Did he say: "Hullo, Pippin! This is a pleasent surprise!"? No, indeed! He said:"Get up, you tom-fool of a Took!" Pippin, TTT.

12-23-2002, 12:11 PM	#42
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Legolas skate-boarding down the stairs was another miscue for me. Perhaps I can turn to some of Tolkien's words in an effort to explain what, for me, is missing in The Battle of Helm's Deep.<P>The battle is not supposed to be fun for the participants, particularly the leaders. Here is what Tolkien says about the incursion of the chivalric ideal into the heroic ideal. I think it works equally for this intrusion of comedic moment.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>... he (Beorhtnoth) was responsible for all the men under him, not to throw away their lives except with one object, the defence of the realm from an implacable foe....It was heroic of him and his men to fight, to annihilation if necessary, in the attempt to destroy or hold off the invaders. It was wholly unfitting that he should treat a desperate battle with this sole real object as a sporting match, to the ruin of his purpose and duty. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><I>The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth</I><P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

12-23-2002, 12:50 PM	#43
Cherie Centaur Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cottage Cheese near the Gap Posts: 95	I'm not much of a carnage and battle fan but I liked this one, though I have major problems with everyone in Edoras being there and I won't get into the whole Elf army thing. I also hated how they demoted Gimli to comic relief, though I laughed at every joke. Also, Eomer saving the day at the last minute was, after certain misrepresented ideas about a certain Gondor captain, too much to handle. Sorry Turoch, I'm not as big a fan of Eomer as you.<p>[ December 23, 2002: Message edited by: Cherie Centaur ] __________________ Why do we let the monkey slide for popping the weasel? Just because he thought it was fun? Guys, we're dealing with a psycho.

12-23-2002, 12:54 PM	#44
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I am struggling to accept that some people don't love Eomer. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-24-2002, 01:22 PM	#45
Cherie Centaur Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cottage Cheese near the Gap Posts: 95	I like Eomer, I just don't adore him. He's a little too rough and edgy for me. Though the whole at-the-last-minute-old-western-calvery thing was a bit much. __________________ Why do we let the monkey slide for popping the weasel? Just because he thought it was fun? Guys, we're dealing with a psycho.

12-24-2002, 04:37 PM	#46
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	Do remeber that the whole at-the-last-minute-old-western-calvery thing was a contrivance of PJ not Tolkien. I so wish Eomer had been given his proper role at helms deep. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters

12-24-2002, 04:48 PM	#47
Pukel-Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona, -East of Dunharrow Posts: 54	Shield-surfing-complete crap. __________________ This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock!-Mayor Vaughn

09-01-2003, 06:22 PM	#48
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	When I watched the movie the first time, it didn't bother me so much, but now that I've seen it a few times, I'm getting more and more puzzled. At the end of the battle, when Aragorn is convincing Theoden to "ride out and meet them," there are no horses in the hall. But seconds later, there are horses in the hall, ready to be ridden forth to glory. How did they get there? Also, when the Deeping Wall and gate are breached, you see that to get into or out of the hall one must traverse at least one flight of stairs. Horses don't do stairs. And they certainly don't charge down them.<P>So I ask: is there some sort of horse elevator that I'm unaware of?<P>Cheers!<BR>-Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

09-07-2003, 11:55 AM	#49
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	Ofcourse there were many bad shots and mistakes . But I just like battle sceenes so I like Helm's Deep only couldn't it been a bit shorter ? I mean , PJ would have more time to show Shelob or something . __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .