Sauron's Plan - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

rudeboy · 07-16-2003, 03:14 PM

What was Sauron's actual plan concerning the rings of power. He didn't bank on the elves making the 3, so he believed there was only 16 (7+9), so he thought he wouldn't be percieved when he forged the one, so he must of hoped the elves use the 16 and then become slaves to his will. But the elves made the 3 perceived him, so he had to dish the rings out to others! Does this seem correct, I have never quite understood it.

tinewelt · 07-16-2003, 09:52 PM

you should probably read the "rings of power" theme here on the website. (if you have not already done so) Also, its very well explained in the SIL. chapter concerning the rings of power. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Finwe · 07-17-2003, 08:25 AM

I think he was actually caught off guard by the Elves making the Three Rings. He had originally planned to subdue all the Free Peoples by giving their leaders Rings, that would eventually bring them under his power. He wanted to probably make the Elven Rings himself, or help Celebrimbor make them, since the Elves were his main enemies. He did the same thing for the Men and the Dwarves, I think. But since Celebrimbor made the Elven Rings on his own, Sauron didn't have any influence over them, or at least not as much as he would have liked.

rudeboy · 07-17-2003, 01:07 PM

You say he wanted to rule whole peoples by giving them rings, but by giving the rings to Kings of men, he only ruled them and not the kingdoms, or did he? Also the elven rings were just more powerful so they percieved Sauron, he could still control them the same if the elves did not take them off!

Lord of Angmar · 07-17-2003, 01:23 PM

Sauron did not rule the kingdoms of the men to whom he gaves the rings, but he did sway their leadership in that they did things that were indirectly of his bidding. Sauron cannot control the Three Rings, as he could with the others, in the sense that he has power over their bearers, but nonetheless the Ruling Ring exerted power over the Three because when it was destroyed the Three no longer held their power.

FingolfintheBold · 07-17-2003, 02:45 PM

Say, lets go really off the subject for a second. What ever happened to Celebrimbor? Was he slain in the war, or did he go over the sea. I assume it was probably him he handed out the elven rings to various elven leaders, and since Cirdan had one, maybe it was given to him by Celebrimbor before he left...Thoughts?

rudeboy · 07-17-2003, 02:57 PM

If Sauron regained the one he would be able to control the 3 rings, as gandalf says to Frodo in FotR "A shadow of the past" he says, he will rule them all again even the 3 and will be stronger than ever. So the one did have a strong influence over the 3.

Lord of Angmar · 07-17-2003, 06:13 PM

Celebrimbor was slain when Sauron's forces overtook Eregion.

Osse · 07-21-2003, 05:59 AM

in fact i believe Celebrimbor was tortured by sauron, he gave up the location of the 7, but kept the location of the 3 quiet, obviously the 3 were more dear to him. Having given all the information he was likely to, sauron killed his and used his body as a standard in the war that followed.

Finwe · 07-21-2003, 10:58 AM

Poor Celebrimbor. I think that the Doom of Mandos followed all the descendants of Fëanor, and the best example is 'Brimbor. He died defending what he most loved, and even in death, he fought against Sauron, and tried to remedy his mistakes. Even in death, he foiled Sauron.

Lord of Angmar · 07-21-2003, 12:08 PM

Quote:

even in death, he fought against Sauron, and tried to remedy his mistakes. Even in death, he foiled Sauron.

Finwe would you explain this quote? It rather confused me... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Would you be referring to the Elven Rings?

True, Celebrimbor is a prime example of the Doom of the Noldor, since in the end he was killed and the works that he devised were destroyed.

07-16-2003, 03:14 PM	#1
rudeboy Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flitwick, Beds Posts: 47	Sauron's Plan What was Sauron's actual plan concerning the rings of power. He didn't bank on the elves making the 3, so he believed there was only 16 (7+9), so he thought he wouldn't be percieved when he forged the one, so he must of hoped the elves use the 16 and then become slaves to his will. But the elves made the 3 perceived him, so he had to dish the rings out to others! Does this seem correct, I have never quite understood it.

07-17-2003, 08:25 AM	#3
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I think he was actually caught off guard by the Elves making the Three Rings. He had originally planned to subdue all the Free Peoples by giving their leaders Rings, that would eventually bring them under his power. He wanted to probably make the Elven Rings himself, or help Celebrimbor make them, since the Elves were his main enemies. He did the same thing for the Men and the Dwarves, I think. But since Celebrimbor made the Elven Rings on his own, Sauron didn't have any influence over them, or at least not as much as he would have liked. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

07-17-2003, 01:23 PM	#5
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Sauron did not rule the kingdoms of the men to whom he gaves the rings, but he did sway their leadership in that they did things that were indirectly of his bidding. Sauron cannot control the Three Rings, as he could with the others, in the sense that he has power over their bearers, but nonetheless the Ruling Ring exerted power over the Three because when it was destroyed the Three no longer held their power. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

07-17-2003, 02:45 PM	#6
FingolfintheBold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere between knowing my path and walking it Posts: 69	Say, lets go really off the subject for a second. What ever happened to Celebrimbor? Was he slain in the war, or did he go over the sea. I assume it was probably him he handed out the elven rings to various elven leaders, and since Cirdan had one, maybe it was given to him by Celebrimbor before he left...Thoughts? __________________ There long the golden leaves have grown, upon the branching years, while here beyond the sundering seas, now fall the Elven-tears... but if of ships I now would sing, what ship would come to me, what ship would bear me ever back, across so wide a sea?

07-17-2003, 06:13 PM	#8
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Celebrimbor was slain when Sauron's forces overtook Eregion. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

07-16-2003, 09:52 PM	#2
tinewelt Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the Seventh Gate of Gondolin Posts: 76	you should probably read the "rings of power" theme here on the website. (if you have not already done so) Also, its very well explained in the SIL. chapter concerning the rings of power. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

07-17-2003, 01:07 PM	#4
rudeboy Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flitwick, Beds Posts: 47	You say he wanted to rule whole peoples by giving them rings, but by giving the rings to Kings of men, he only ruled them and not the kingdoms, or did he? Also the elven rings were just more powerful so they percieved Sauron, he could still control them the same if the elves did not take them off!

07-17-2003, 02:57 PM	#7
rudeboy Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flitwick, Beds Posts: 47	If Sauron regained the one he would be able to control the 3 rings, as gandalf says to Frodo in FotR "A shadow of the past" he says, he will rule them all again even the 3 and will be stronger than ever. So the one did have a strong influence over the 3.

07-21-2003, 05:59 AM	#9
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	in fact i believe Celebrimbor was tortured by sauron, he gave up the location of the 7, but kept the location of the 3 quiet, obviously the 3 were more dear to him. Having given all the information he was likely to, sauron killed his and used his body as a standard in the war that followed. __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

07-21-2003, 10:58 AM	#10
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Poor Celebrimbor. I think that the Doom of Mandos followed all the descendants of Fëanor, and the best example is 'Brimbor. He died defending what he most loved, and even in death, he fought against Sauron, and tried to remedy his mistakes. Even in death, he foiled Sauron. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.