The Timless Void - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

zifnab · 03-05-2002, 11:14 AM

If Melkor is in the Void is it still the Void?

Ok, I know this is a silly question, but it’s got my curious, the Void is a place of nothingness, empty space. So, if somebody or something is to put in there, it becomes inhabited, there is something/somebody that is taken up residence/space in a none existed space. Doesn’t that mean it nulls out the effect of the void? Would that somebody/something if put in the void turn into nothing also, so that the void continues to be nothing? And if that is the cause (Melkor turned into nothing), if there was a chance of escaping from the void, would that person regain its physical or mental abilities again?

void (void)
adj.
1. Containing no matter; empty.
2. Not occupied; unfilled.
3. Completely lacking; devoid: void of understanding. See Synonyms at empty.
4. Ineffective; useless.
5. Having no legal force or validity; null: a contract rendered void.

“But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void.” – Of the Voyage of Earendil/Silmarillion

Does anybody know what the "Door of Night" is? I can only guess.

03-05-2002, 12:35 PM

it is still the void, and he obviously isnt out of it, it sjust a name describing the mentall nothingness of a void, a black hole or whatever, if it contains melkor it is not a void of matter, but of mentality

Mhoram · 03-05-2002, 01:42 PM

Remember Ghostbusters? When they caught a ghost they put them in their containment unit in the basement? Slimer went in one time to find the Marshmellow man and it was just this endless place where all the ghosts just hung out and floated around. I imagine the void like that, anyone concur?

*chuckles* I know I didn't answer your question zif.

Voronwe · 03-05-2002, 05:23 PM

I always thought of the void into which Melkor was cast as a kind of vacumn that lies around Arda. I suppose it would still be in Ea, if it lies about Arda, which is within Ea. I admit, Tolkien's cosmology has always confused me. Is the 'outer void', which existed before Ea was made, and in which Melkor walked before the Music of the Ainur, different from the 'void' where Melkor was cast after the 1st age? I remember reading about the cosmology of Tolkien's world in HoME IV, but I think a lot of the ideas Tolkien had back then were abandonned.

***Sharkû*** · 03-05-2002, 05:33 PM

As for the execution of Morgoth and his being cast into the Void, this actually not so old thread pretty much sums it up (at least better than I could now [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img])

Bruce MacCulloch · 03-05-2002, 05:54 PM

Actually, looking at the name of this topic, the Void is merely a place without someone named "Tim". [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

zifnab · 03-05-2002, 11:13 PM

Darn you Bruce!

[img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Bruce MacCulloch · 03-06-2002, 12:11 AM

Heh! You know I couldn't let that one go. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

zifnab · 03-06-2002, 10:04 AM

I hear ya, Bruce. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Thanks for link, Sharkey. I hadn't read that one yet, in fact I don't remember even seeing it. I should use the "Todays current topics" more often.

03-05-2002, 11:14 AM	#1
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 329	The Timless Void If Melkor is in the Void is it still the Void? Ok, I know this is a silly question, but it’s got my curious, the Void is a place of nothingness, empty space. So, if somebody or something is to put in there, it becomes inhabited, there is something/somebody that is taken up residence/space in a none existed space. Doesn’t that mean it nulls out the effect of the void? Would that somebody/something if put in the void turn into nothing also, so that the void continues to be nothing? And if that is the cause (Melkor turned into nothing), if there was a chance of escaping from the void, would that person regain its physical or mental abilities again? void (void) adj. 1. Containing no matter; empty. 2. Not occupied; unfilled. 3. Completely lacking; devoid: void of understanding. See Synonyms at empty. 4. Ineffective; useless. 5. Having no legal force or validity; null: a contract rendered void. “But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void.” – Of the Voyage of Earendil/Silmarillion Does anybody know what the "Door of Night" is? I can only guess. __________________ Facebook.

03-05-2002, 05:23 PM	#4
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	I always thought of the void into which Melkor was cast as a kind of vacumn that lies around Arda. I suppose it would still be in Ea, if it lies about Arda, which is within Ea. I admit, Tolkien's cosmology has always confused me. Is the 'outer void', which existed before Ea was made, and in which Melkor walked before the Music of the Ainur, different from the 'void' where Melkor was cast after the 1st age? I remember reading about the cosmology of Tolkien's world in HoME IV, but I think a lot of the ideas Tolkien had back then were abandonned. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

03-05-2002, 05:54 PM	#6
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	Actually, looking at the name of this topic, the Void is merely a place without someone named "Tim". [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

03-05-2002, 11:13 PM	#7
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 329	Darn you Bruce! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] __________________ Facebook.

03-06-2002, 12:11 AM	#8
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	Heh! You know I couldn't let that one go. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

03-05-2002, 12:35 PM	#2
Allafinwen Guest Posts: n/a	it is still the void, and he obviously isnt out of it, it sjust a name describing the mentall nothingness of a void, a black hole or whatever, if it contains melkor it is not a void of matter, but of mentality

03-05-2002, 01:42 PM	#3
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	Remember Ghostbusters? When they caught a ghost they put them in their containment unit in the basement? Slimer went in one time to find the Marshmellow man and it was just this endless place where all the ghosts just hung out and floated around. I imagine the void like that, anyone concur? chuckles I know I didn't answer your question zif.

03-05-2002, 05:33 PM	#5
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	As for the execution of Morgoth and his being cast into the Void, this actually not so old thread pretty much sums it up (at least better than I could now [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img])

03-06-2002, 10:04 AM	#9
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 329	I hear ya, Bruce. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Thanks for link, Sharkey. I hadn't read that one yet, in fact I don't remember even seeing it. I should use the "Todays current topics" more often. __________________ Facebook.