Questions On The Silmarillion - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

GollumsPrecious · 12-31-2001, 07:58 AM

Just started to read The Silmarillion and am prolly about a quarter of the way through it. If u don't mind I have a couple of q's to ask which I was hoping some of the boards more informed posters might help me out with.

1. Arda and Ea...

As far as I understand it Arda is "The Earth" and "Ea" is the universe. What I was wondering was if there are any other worlds other than Arda within Ea..or is Arda the only world within the entire Universe that was created by Illuvatar and the Ainur ?

2. Orcs...

Orcs were the work of Melkeor/Morgoth, that much I accept...the only question is how did he make them. According to the text:

"...and naught that had life of it's own, nor the semblence of life, could ever Melkeor make"

..how then did he make orcs ? Were they somehow evolved from the Elves he imprisoned ?

So far I am really enjoying reading the Silmarillion and the index at the back is superb. However, I may have another few questions from time to time and if it's ok I'll come back and post them here on the Barrow-Downs.

Thanks for your help,

Paul.

Legolas · 12-31-2001, 10:23 AM

Orcs are just elves that Melkor captured and corrupted. It seems like I've read which elves were captured, but it escapes me at the moment?!

Ulmo · 12-31-2001, 11:03 AM

As far as I know, Arda was the only world (planet) documented in Ea.

It is said that orcs were in origin corrupted Elves captured by Melkor before the beginning of the First Age.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Ulmo ]

Turgon_of_Gondolin · 12-31-2001, 02:00 PM

I'm fairly sure that the Silmarilion talks about Morgoth corupting the Avari, the elves that refused the journey to Valinor. Also he captured the Sindar and Noldor in his war with them.

Eldar14 · 12-31-2001, 04:00 PM

I also remember how when the first valar formally visited the elves (the one with the horse, I forget his name) it mentioned how the elves feared him because those who wandered away occasionally dissapeared. These might have eventually become the orcs.

Eldar14 · 12-31-2001, 04:01 PM

Forgot to answer the first question. Arda is the only one mentioned, but I've never read anything to prove that there couldn't be other worlds.

Turgon_of_Gondolin · 12-31-2001, 04:06 PM

The Valar on the horse is named Orome
that i am fairly sure of

Elrian · 12-31-2001, 09:15 PM

It was Orome, Elves were being captured before he arrived. Arda was the only world mentioned, but when Eru removed Valinor from the confines of the world, during the fall of Numenor it may have become one itself. They ones that would really be able to answer this are the ones that are very knowledgable of the HoME series. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Those were some very intriguing questions, GollumsPrecious. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

GollumsPrecious · 01-01-2002, 06:23 AM

Thanks for the replies folks. From what I've read here I'm gonna assume:

1. Arda is the only world in Ea we know about. There may be others but they are not mentioned. The only one which might count as another world would be as Elrian said: "...Eru removed Valinor from the confines of the world, during the fall of Numenor it may have become one itself"

In follow up to this point I was chatting to a fellow Tolkien fan at work and he was comparing the creation of middle earth with what is said in the Bible ( a book I have not and don't plan to read !!)...ie God (Illuvatar) created the universe, earth etc but there are no mentions of other worlds. Therefore I suppose it's possible that other than the removal of Valinor there is actually nothing else other than Arda..just as the Bible (or so I'm told) only makes reference to the Earth...hmmmm.

2. Orcs were not made by Morgoth. He somehow twisted and corrupted some Elves and they eventually became the first Orcs. Over time they bread like rabbits, evolved and became the vermin we know them as today.

I'll prolly have some more q's later. I'm now about half way through and will keep in touch if I have any more to ask yaz.

Cheers,

Paul C.

12-31-2001, 07:58 AM	#1
GollumsPrecious Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 21	Questions On The Silmarillion Just started to read The Silmarillion and am prolly about a quarter of the way through it. If u don't mind I have a couple of q's to ask which I was hoping some of the boards more informed posters might help me out with. 1. Arda and Ea... As far as I understand it Arda is "The Earth" and "Ea" is the universe. What I was wondering was if there are any other worlds other than Arda within Ea..or is Arda the only world within the entire Universe that was created by Illuvatar and the Ainur ? 2. Orcs... Orcs were the work of Melkeor/Morgoth, that much I accept...the only question is how did he make them. According to the text: "...and naught that had life of it's own, nor the semblence of life, could ever Melkeor make" ..how then did he make orcs ? Were they somehow evolved from the Elves he imprisoned ? So far I am really enjoying reading the Silmarillion and the index at the back is superb. However, I may have another few questions from time to time and if it's ok I'll come back and post them here on the Barrow-Downs. Thanks for your help, Paul. __________________ Ugluk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob bubhosh skai'...

12-31-2001, 10:23 AM	#2
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Orcs are just elves that Melkor captured and corrupted. It seems like I've read which elves were captured, but it escapes me at the moment?! __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

12-31-2001, 11:03 AM	#3
Ulmo Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 55	As far as I know, Arda was the only world (planet) documented in Ea. It is said that orcs were in origin corrupted Elves captured by Melkor before the beginning of the First Age. [ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Ulmo ] __________________ Lord of the seas and one of the greatest of the Valar; in the dark days of the First Age, he kept watch on Elves and Men while the others of his order remained in Valinor. He is famed for bringing Tuor to Gondolin, and so ultimately bringing about the downfall of Morgoth in the War of Wrath.

12-31-2001, 04:00 PM	#5
Eldar14 Wight Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: the Cottage of Lost Play Posts: 182	I also remember how when the first valar formally visited the elves (the one with the horse, I forget his name) it mentioned how the elves feared him because those who wandered away occasionally dissapeared. These might have eventually become the orcs. __________________ "Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!" -- Fëanor to the Noldor

12-31-2001, 04:01 PM	#6
Eldar14 Wight Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: the Cottage of Lost Play Posts: 182	Forgot to answer the first question. Arda is the only one mentioned, but I've never read anything to prove that there couldn't be other worlds. __________________ "Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!" -- Fëanor to the Noldor

12-31-2001, 02:00 PM	#4
Turgon_of_Gondolin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Gondolin Posts: 15	I'm fairly sure that the Silmarilion talks about Morgoth corupting the Avari, the elves that refused the journey to Valinor. Also he captured the Sindar and Noldor in his war with them.

12-31-2001, 04:06 PM	#7
Turgon_of_Gondolin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Gondolin Posts: 15	The Valar on the horse is named Orome that i am fairly sure of

12-31-2001, 09:15 PM	#8
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	It was Orome, Elves were being captured before he arrived. Arda was the only world mentioned, but when Eru removed Valinor from the confines of the world, during the fall of Numenor it may have become one itself. They ones that would really be able to answer this are the ones that are very knowledgable of the HoME series. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Those were some very intriguing questions, GollumsPrecious. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-01-2002, 06:23 AM	#9
GollumsPrecious Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 21	Thanks for the replies folks. From what I've read here I'm gonna assume: 1. Arda is the only world in Ea we know about. There may be others but they are not mentioned. The only one which might count as another world would be as Elrian said: "...Eru removed Valinor from the confines of the world, during the fall of Numenor it may have become one itself" In follow up to this point I was chatting to a fellow Tolkien fan at work and he was comparing the creation of middle earth with what is said in the Bible ( a book I have not and don't plan to read !!)...ie God (Illuvatar) created the universe, earth etc but there are no mentions of other worlds. Therefore I suppose it's possible that other than the removal of Valinor there is actually nothing else other than Arda..just as the Bible (or so I'm told) only makes reference to the Earth...hmmmm. 2. Orcs were not made by Morgoth. He somehow twisted and corrupted some Elves and they eventually became the first Orcs. Over time they bread like rabbits, evolved and became the vermin we know them as today. I'll prolly have some more q's later. I'm now about half way through and will keep in touch if I have any more to ask yaz. Cheers, Paul C. __________________ Ugluk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob bubhosh skai'...