The Watcher in the Water - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Airetauriel · 02-26-2002, 02:37 PM

I'm sure it's explained somewhere, but what exactly was the Watcher in the Water? Something that should not have been awakened is one of the only bits of info I can find about it....anyone got any clues for me?

Airetauriel

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 02-26-2002, 02:43 PM

The keeper at westgate was Tolkien's idea of the Kraken of Greek mythos, and Kraken I'm pretty sure was the Dwarven word for it. It had tentacles with hands (more like two fingered extensions) and if you see the movie, a hideous face, with bulbous eyes and fang filled maw.

Ulmo · 02-26-2002, 02:50 PM

Tolkien intentionally left it ambigious. Fear of the unknown and all of that. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

02-26-2002, 03:14 PM

I believe Gandalf said something about it coming from the deeps of the sea. Or the deeps of something. I can't quote it without a book handy. Anyway it was when they were in moria that he said something about it.

I think the Kraken was a nice touch. Wasn't it suppose to just slam the west gate closed instead of destroying the gate like in the movie?

Aralaithiel · 02-26-2002, 04:24 PM

LOL! I figured you would know about it Ulmo, being the Valar of the Sea! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Elven-Maiden · 02-26-2002, 08:01 PM

The watcher wasn't supposed to be hard-core action scene, like in the movie. It's original intention was to set a sense of foreboding doom. The sealing of the door also sealed Gandalf's fate.

Airetauriel · 02-27-2002, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shire_Folk:
<STRONG>I believe Gandalf said something about it coming from the deeps of the sea. Or the deeps of something. I can't quote it without a book handy. Anyway it was when they were in moria that he said something about it.

I think the Kraken was a nice touch. Wasn't it suppose to just slam the west gate closed instead of destroying the gate like in the movie?</STRONG>

This is the only dialogue relating to it, after the gate is closed behind them:

" 'I felt something horrible was near from the first time my foot touched the water,' said Frodo. 'What was the thing, or were there many of them?'
'I do not know,' answered Gandalf; 'but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world.' He did not speak aloud his thought that whatever it was that dwelt in the lake, it had seized on Frodo first in all the Company. "

No more, no less. I'm still interested in what it might be - I've done some research on the Kraken in the past but does anyone know why it comes up here??? (apart from the sense of foreboding, that still doesn't explain why it's a Kraken) Did Tolkein have some special interest?

Airetauriel

Nefwathiel Teleri · 03-02-2002, 09:09 PM

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] The watcher in the water has never been described in any of the books, except when gandalf said that,"there are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world." I personally think it was created by Melkor Morgoth. He perverted the elves to make the race of orcs, created the balrogs, dragons, etc. And other unnamed foul things of evil design. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

02-26-2002, 02:37 PM	#1
Airetauriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 47	The Watcher in the Water I'm sure it's explained somewhere, but what exactly was the Watcher in the Water? Something that should not have been awakened is one of the only bits of info I can find about it....anyone got any clues for me? Airetauriel

02-26-2002, 02:43 PM	#2
Keeper of Dol Guldur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls. Posts: 405	The keeper at westgate was Tolkien's idea of the Kraken of Greek mythos, and Kraken I'm pretty sure was the Dwarven word for it. It had tentacles with hands (more like two fingered extensions) and if you see the movie, a hideous face, with bulbous eyes and fang filled maw. __________________ "I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling

02-26-2002, 02:50 PM	#3
Ulmo Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 55	Tolkien intentionally left it ambigious. Fear of the unknown and all of that. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Lord of the seas and one of the greatest of the Valar; in the dark days of the First Age, he kept watch on Elves and Men while the others of his order remained in Valinor. He is famed for bringing Tuor to Gondolin, and so ultimately bringing about the downfall of Morgoth in the War of Wrath.

02-26-2002, 04:24 PM	#5
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	LOL! I figured you would know about it Ulmo, being the Valar of the Sea! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-26-2002, 08:01 PM	#6
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	The watcher wasn't supposed to be hard-core action scene, like in the movie. It's original intention was to set a sense of foreboding doom. The sealing of the door also sealed Gandalf's fate. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

02-26-2002, 03:14 PM	#4
Shire_Folk Guest Posts: n/a	I believe Gandalf said something about it coming from the deeps of the sea. Or the deeps of something. I can't quote it without a book handy. Anyway it was when they were in moria that he said something about it. I think the Kraken was a nice touch. Wasn't it suppose to just slam the west gate closed instead of destroying the gate like in the movie?

03-02-2002, 09:09 PM	#8
Nefwathiel Teleri Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 122	[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] The watcher in the water has never been described in any of the books, except when gandalf said that,"there are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world." I personally think it was created by Melkor Morgoth. He perverted the elves to make the race of orcs, created the balrogs, dragons, etc. And other unnamed foul things of evil design. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]