Who was The Power that struggled mentally with Galadriel at Dol Guldur?

[Iarhen]

Remembering Haldir's words at the Cerin Amroth, he says that at the top of that hill, "you can see the two powers in mind struggle. The light penetrates the heart of darkness, but the secret of the ligth has not yet been revealed".

Now, if Sauron was supposed to be at Barad Dur, since he fled from Dol Guldur, who was the power Galadriel was wrestling with?

Was it a manifestation of Sauron? Because I dont think that any of Sauron's servants could stand a mental fight with Galadriel. If even Sauron was revealed by Galadriel's mind power... what chance could a mere servant have?

[Meoshi]

That is not the only unknown in the books. The army of the West would not enter Minas Morgul, partially because of the need for the safety of Frodo, but also because of

The evil that dwelt in that valley, where the minds of living men would turn to madness and horror

My guess would be that Sauron must have employed some Maiar, lesser than him, which he placed at key locations to reinforce his strength.

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Meoshi ]

[lathspell]

you can see the two powers in mind struggle. The light penetrates the heart of darkness, but the secret of the ligth has not yet been revealed".

Who says Haldir speaks about a power in Dol Guldur. Maybe he is talking about a power in Barad-dur. Is this stated somewhere? I know Galadriel something like seeing Sauron's mind.

[Iarhen]

I guess you are right. Haldir never says that the power that Galadriel struggles with is at Dol Guldur. He probably referred to Barad Dur.

[drigel]

If it's coming from Minas Morgul, then it could only have come from the Witch King, eh?

[Iarhen]

I seriously doubt that the Witch King of Angmar was the one that Galadriel was wrestling in thought with. The only one that could prove a challenge for her is Sauron, not one of his minions.

[Malva Headstrong]

But Sauron is a Maia and Galadriel "only" an elf, still very powerful, wise, a Ringbearer and all, but still an elf. And if Sauron himself struggled with her, wouldn´t he discover, that she was the bearer of Nenya?
I always thought that there was a power within Sauron´s strongholds, something like atomical radiation or so (not the best example, I know). Something like in Fangorn where the hobbits could hardly breath, only stronger.

[Meoshi]

The Silmarillion says that in the age of the Two Trees of Valinor, the greatest of the Eldar became as powerful as those Maiar who had joined the service of Melkor. That would probably still put Galadriel below Sauron, but it's more even than you might think.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

IT'S A METAPHOR

Well, I am certain Galadriel struggled against Sauron himself, for she had seen the eye, somehow (probably through use of the mirror-where and how she picked up a trick like that, by the way, I would love to find out). But as for Caras Galadhon, well Dol Goldur was certainly it's opposing stronghold and it's opposite, and the Keeper of that stronghold was Khamul the Easterling, the second Nazgul. But he wasn't present at that time, he was either in Mordor or chasing Frodo, or Faramir, or riding a dark Hell-hawk. So the lack of an actual spiritual presence there for Galadriel to contend with leads me to believe that it was metaphor. While Sauron was there as the Necromancer, even he didn't know that Celeborn's wood was only like forty miles west of him. So a ringwraith definitely could not have perceived such things. Haldir was simply using a sort of extended view of the dueling hills, striving against eachother, and as for Galadriel's struggle, I think that was with the Eye.

The Power in Barad Dur saw many things, and though more than a match for Galadriel, one must remember that there are other strenghts besides power and intelligence. The elves had wisdom and intuitiveness, and innovation. Not technical innovation, like the dwarves or like Sauron himself and his orcs, but innovative plans. Remember that Middle Earth is a big place, scouring it for one person isn't easy, it's probably impossible.

But Galadriel sat on the high hill of Caras Galadhon and strove with Sauron, and I believe it was in similar fashion that Gandalf did the same, to draw the Eye from Frodo on Amon Hen. Caras Galadhon is a big hill, and Gandalf sat in a high place (probably the uppermost flet, or in the Mirror Glade), and then maybe Sauron perceived finally the location of Lothlorien. Not that it helped the hosts of nearby Dol Goldur much, that just meant they had enemies to fight on two elvish-fronts, not to mention any of the men along the Vale of Anduin that may have helped out.

The struggle between Caras Galadhon and Dol Goldur was merely personalizing the battle of good and evil, two hills sort of 'opposed' eachother. Galadriel's strife was with the eye, for she 'knew what it was, that Frodo saw.'

[Iarhen]

That last answer was exactly the one I was looking for. Thank you.

One last question. Galadriel's girdle around Lothlorien was the defensive stance that kept the sight of Sauron out of the realm and the armies of Dol Guldur?

[Olorin_TLA]

Girdle? You mean like a weaker version of Melian's (it would make sense) ?

[Angry Hill Troll]

I seriously doubt that the Witch King of Angmar was the one that Galadriel was wrestling in thought with. The only one that could prove a challenge for her is Sauron, not one of his minions.

Tolkien says so in the UT, referring to Denethor's and Saruman's use of the Palantiri:

It was not [Sauron's] way to commit such instruments to the use of subordinates; nor had he any servant whose mental powers were superior to Saruman's or even Denethor's.

[Iarhen]

Yeah, a girdle around Lothlorien. Maybe it was not as powerful as Melian's, but again, maybe it was. Galadriel built it not only using her power, but the power of Nenya too. I guess that with her power combined with the might of the Nenya ring, it could be as powerful as Melian's.

[Son of Fire]

One More thing, Sauron waws a maya that joined in the treachery of melkor, so she would equal his power more or less and he was severely weakened by the lack of his ring. As for the Melian thing, maybe, i mean she was in Valinor and became as powerful as the maiar under Morgoth, so maybe they would be equal. Maybe there's something in letters... not done with it yet

[lathspell]

While Sauron was there as the Necromancer, even he didn't know that Celeborn's wood was only like forty miles west of him.

There's the only point of critism, I have, Keeper of Dol Guldur. Sauron certainly knew that there was an Elven realm there, though he didn't know what was holding the extreme power as Galadriel says in LotR.
Gandalf says (in either 'the Shadow of the Past' or 'the Council of Elrond') that he was now almost sure that Sauron's original plan was attack Lothlorien and Rivendell when his host was large enough. The only thing that interrupted was the White Council, driving him out of Dol Guldur.

greetings,
lathspell