Sauron, or the One Ring? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

04-28-2002, 04:21 PM

...which was greater, Sauron, or the One Ring? I know that Sauron made the One Ring, but it also says that he put much of his power into it. In other words, if u were in a battle, and u had to choose between either the Ring or Sauron, which one would u choose?

VanimaEdhel · 04-28-2002, 04:28 PM

Sauron and the Ring are both basically as powerful, aren't they?

I thought so, for I remember that the ring does not survive without Sauron and Sauron does not survive without the ring.

If it is not that, then I believe that the ring would then be stronger than Sauron, for he was so dependent on it.

So: covering all the possible bases, I can now say: watch out for the supreme evil, Morgoth/Melkor, for Sauron was a follower of Morgoth (read The Silmarillion)! He would most likely beat both Sauron and the Ring in one sitting, then make a nice dinner of what captives he has. LOL [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

04-28-2002, 05:44 PM

i have read the sil, and i was just making sure...ty

Elven-Maiden · 04-28-2002, 06:58 PM

The way I see it, Sauron was so obsessed abot creating to ultimate weapon, he sold his soul for it. In so doing, he put himself into the ring. The ring is nothing more than his tool, but is also a part of him. Therefore, both are just as evil, which turned out to be his one weakness.

Kalimac · 04-28-2002, 09:41 PM

When you say choose between Sauron or the Ring, you do mean choose which one to destroy, is that right? Sorry to be slow, but it seemed a little ambiguous [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

I always thought of the Ring as being sort of like Sauron's heart, or soul (not that you could really accuse him of having either a soul or a heart, but you know what I mean). Except that in this case he voluntarily created this object which would give him more concentrated power, presumably knowing the risks that this entailed. And once he had done this, while it's hard to tell which was more powerful (since the heart cannot live without the body, nor the body without the heart) I'd choose to destroy the Ring if I had to pick. On the principle of striking the one killing blow instead of having to strike a lot of small blows.

Hope that made sense!

lathspell · 04-29-2002, 02:52 AM

Sauron was in a way dependent to the Ring. If It would be destroyed, Sauron would be destroyed as well. But it's not so that Sauron wouldn't win the War without the Ring in his possession.

In my point of view the Ring itself ain't more powerful than Sauron, but the Ring is again dependent to the one it serves. If that one is already one with great power, then the Ring would give him the power to be greater than Sauron (for example if Gandalf or Galadriel had taken the Ring). As for the weaker ones, the Ring couldn't do much with: only devour them and make them corrupt and invisible (Gollum, Frodo and Bilbo).

So I guess that the Ring itself had no power that was greater than Sauron himself, but he gave it's bearer powers according to the powers he already had. So it wasn't the Ring that was so powerful in itself, but he could make someone so powerful that he would overthrow Sauron and that's what made it so important for both sides.

Mankáno · 04-29-2002, 06:34 PM

When Sauron forged the ring, he left part of the power that was intrisic in him in that ring, that was what Gandalf said.

So, in a sense, as well as Morgoth gave up part of his own power to create and powering his evil creatures, Sauron did something similar with the ring.

But, he didn't do it for nothing. It wasn't that the ring + Sauron = Sauron before the ring. It was that Sauron became more powerful by wearing that ring, mostly because he could read the minds and control those who wore the other rings, including the three rings of the elves, even though he never touched them or participated in their making.

that wasn't the only power of the ring, what exactly were those power, it's not explained in LOTR. Except for the domination of other's minds, and enhancement of some senses, I don't know what was the practical effect of wearing the ring (like being stronger, creating earthquakes or stuff like that). The foundations of Barad Dur were put with the power of the ring and while the ring existed they couldn't be destroyed. When the ring was destroyed, Sauron was weakened and his spirit was sent somewhere outside Arda, but also, the destruction caused terrible earthquakes that devastated Mordor.

To answer the second question, what's preferable, to be Sauron or to wear the ring, I can give the answer Elrond gave. To control the ring it had to be someone with a great power on his own, otherwise the ring would dominate him (as it did with Gollum), but in that case, if someone like Gandalf, or Elrond, Galadriel or Aragorn wore the ring, and used it, they would become something similar to Sauron. In other word, if you wore the ring, you would be like Sauron.

[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mankáno ]

O'Boile · 07-05-2002, 08:55 AM

Tough call... Sauron cannot be destroyed unless the ring is destroyed, but only powerful people can truly use the ring. Don't know the full strength as no one powerful actually uses the ring.

The reason Sauron puts so much of his strength in the ring is that he needs it to be that strong to control all the other rings. By giving up some of his power (or at least putting it in something that can be seperated from him) it lets him control the power in all the other rings, so there is a net increase in power for him.

Orofacion of the Vanyar · 07-05-2002, 09:06 PM

I believe the ring was more powerful, and the reason is not because of sheer power, but something more subtle, but ultimately important.

Sauron desired the ring, so much so, that this was his weakness. The ring did desire to be returned to it's master, but did not go out of it's way to try to return. If someone of equal power to that of Sauron's wore the ring, he would become the greater being.

This tells me that Sauron was less powerful, his lust over the ring. I guess what I'm saying is, it's a psychological thing.

04-28-2002, 04:21 PM	#1
BelegCurumo Guest Posts: n/a	Sauron, or the One Ring? ...which was greater, Sauron, or the One Ring? I know that Sauron made the One Ring, but it also says that he put much of his power into it. In other words, if u were in a battle, and u had to choose between either the Ring or Sauron, which one would u choose?

04-28-2002, 04:28 PM	#2
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	Sauron and the Ring are both basically as powerful, aren't they? I thought so, for I remember that the ring does not survive without Sauron and Sauron does not survive without the ring. If it is not that, then I believe that the ring would then be stronger than Sauron, for he was so dependent on it. So: covering all the possible bases, I can now say: watch out for the supreme evil, Morgoth/Melkor, for Sauron was a follower of Morgoth (read The Silmarillion)! He would most likely beat both Sauron and the Ring in one sitting, then make a nice dinner of what captives he has. LOL [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

04-28-2002, 06:58 PM	#4
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	The way I see it, Sauron was so obsessed abot creating to ultimate weapon, he sold his soul for it. In so doing, he put himself into the ring. The ring is nothing more than his tool, but is also a part of him. Therefore, both are just as evil, which turned out to be his one weakness. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

04-28-2002, 09:41 PM	#5
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	When you say choose between Sauron or the Ring, you do mean choose which one to destroy, is that right? Sorry to be slow, but it seemed a little ambiguous [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. I always thought of the Ring as being sort of like Sauron's heart, or soul (not that you could really accuse him of having either a soul or a heart, but you know what I mean). Except that in this case he voluntarily created this object which would give him more concentrated power, presumably knowing the risks that this entailed. And once he had done this, while it's hard to tell which was more powerful (since the heart cannot live without the body, nor the body without the heart) I'd choose to destroy the Ring if I had to pick. On the principle of striking the one killing blow instead of having to strike a lot of small blows. Hope that made sense! __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

04-29-2002, 02:52 AM	#6
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Sauron was in a way dependent to the Ring. If It would be destroyed, Sauron would be destroyed as well. But it's not so that Sauron wouldn't win the War without the Ring in his possession. In my point of view the Ring itself ain't more powerful than Sauron, but the Ring is again dependent to the one it serves. If that one is already one with great power, then the Ring would give him the power to be greater than Sauron (for example if Gandalf or Galadriel had taken the Ring). As for the weaker ones, the Ring couldn't do much with: only devour them and make them corrupt and invisible (Gollum, Frodo and Bilbo). So I guess that the Ring itself had no power that was greater than Sauron himself, but he gave it's bearer powers according to the powers he already had. So it wasn't the Ring that was so powerful in itself, but he could make someone so powerful that he would overthrow Sauron and that's what made it so important for both sides. __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

04-28-2002, 05:44 PM	#3
BelegCurumo Guest Posts: n/a	i have read the sil, and i was just making sure...ty

04-29-2002, 06:34 PM	#7
Mankáno Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tirion Posts: 30	When Sauron forged the ring, he left part of the power that was intrisic in him in that ring, that was what Gandalf said. So, in a sense, as well as Morgoth gave up part of his own power to create and powering his evil creatures, Sauron did something similar with the ring. But, he didn't do it for nothing. It wasn't that the ring + Sauron = Sauron before the ring. It was that Sauron became more powerful by wearing that ring, mostly because he could read the minds and control those who wore the other rings, including the three rings of the elves, even though he never touched them or participated in their making. that wasn't the only power of the ring, what exactly were those power, it's not explained in LOTR. Except for the domination of other's minds, and enhancement of some senses, I don't know what was the practical effect of wearing the ring (like being stronger, creating earthquakes or stuff like that). The foundations of Barad Dur were put with the power of the ring and while the ring existed they couldn't be destroyed. When the ring was destroyed, Sauron was weakened and his spirit was sent somewhere outside Arda, but also, the destruction caused terrible earthquakes that devastated Mordor. To answer the second question, what's preferable, to be Sauron or to wear the ring, I can give the answer Elrond gave. To control the ring it had to be someone with a great power on his own, otherwise the ring would dominate him (as it did with Gollum), but in that case, if someone like Gandalf, or Elrond, Galadriel or Aragorn wore the ring, and used it, they would become something similar to Sauron. In other word, if you wore the ring, you would be like Sauron. [ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mankáno ]

07-05-2002, 08:55 AM	#8
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	Tough call... Sauron cannot be destroyed unless the ring is destroyed, but only powerful people can truly use the ring. Don't know the full strength as no one powerful actually uses the ring. The reason Sauron puts so much of his strength in the ring is that he needs it to be that strong to control all the other rings. By giving up some of his power (or at least putting it in something that can be seperated from him) it lets him control the power in all the other rings, so there is a net increase in power for him.

07-05-2002, 09:06 PM	#9
Orofacion of the Vanyar Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Clayton, NC Posts: 102	I believe the ring was more powerful, and the reason is not because of sheer power, but something more subtle, but ultimately important. Sauron desired the ring, so much so, that this was his weakness. The ring did desire to be returned to it's master, but did not go out of it's way to try to return. If someone of equal power to that of Sauron's wore the ring, he would become the greater being. This tells me that Sauron was less powerful, his lust over the ring. I guess what I'm saying is, it's a psychological thing.