Tom Bombadil

In The Fellowship Of The Ring, you all probably remember the light hearted Tom Bombadil, but since rereading the series i have been wondering just who exactly he is. The nearest guess i can make is that he isa Maiar. But thats just a guess from what he says about him self: "but you are young and I am old. Eldest, That's what I am. Mark my words friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first rain drop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the kings and the graves and the Barrow-whites. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas where bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless- before the Dark Lord came from Outside". There is also the way that he hones his powers, through song.

[Olo Gamwich]

I have no clue...but if you click this link it will take you to the poll results at this site from visitors here that voted on who Tom Bombadil was. Poll Results
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[burrahobbit]

Tom Bombadil is a figment of your imagination.

[lathspell]

Indo Silver - The Tom Bombadil-question is a topic that is discussed over and over on the downs. There are some ideas of what he could be:
- Eru, but Tolkien himself said that he wasn't
- Manwë (the reasons to believe this I do not know)
- Tolkien himself (somehow I don't think Tolkien would do such a thing)
- An earth spirit (it might be so and than Goldberry might be a Water spirit)
- A maiar (which can be so as well, but still seems quiet unlikely to fit the tale of the Silmarillion)
- An enigma (which, it is said, Tolkien himself claimes him to be)

The always-returning TB-question is quiet unanswerable, in my opinion, for there's too little proof anything about him.
As said before me you might check out our poll-results to get an idea.

greetings,
lathspell

[Halfir]

It is important to see where Tom appears in the FOTR. He appears before the fellowship has been created and at the beginning of the hobbits' journey. His imagery, and that of his consort - Goldberry, is redolent of nature. He does not seek to control, although he is the Master of an area that Gandalf later tells us he has defined for himself and outside whose boundaries he will not step. He prevents Old Man Willow and the Barrow -Wight from interfering with the quest of the hobbits, but he is not himself part of that quest, and his intervention is not to control but to prevent control of others. His clothing, songs, rhymes and character are eccentric and free, like nature, and he clearly sits outside the standard hierachy of ME. He is like a humanized version of Hern the Hunter - without the antlers and the savagery, or like The Green Man - both major personae in Celtic mythology. As Goldberyy says 'He is". Both in FOTR and in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil he shows a total affinity with nature, and a total mastery of it, but with no desire to control it other than when it impedes him e.g. he extricates himself from Goldberry, Old Man Willow, a family of badgers, and a Barrow Wight because they are trying to "catch" him and interfere with his wanderings - and he does this by song and rhyme - for his songs are stronger. He is the epitome of nature, but nature humanized by Tolkien through the domesticity of the English countryside.

[Elven-Maiden]

I believe that Tom Bombadil was aa Ainur. Since he is older than anyone else, he can't be a Maiar, since Gandalf is a Maiar. That's my opinion, at any rate.

[burrahobbit]

I'd like to elaborate upon my earlier statement. Tom is Tom, and that's all there is to it. Tom is Tom is Tom. TOM IS TOM IS TOM IS TOM. Don't try to figure out what sort of special relationship he has to the rest of Middle-earth, or even to Arda. You won't be able to, there isn't one. Tom is sort of an inside joke for Tolkien's family. Tom is his daughter's doll.

[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: burrahobbit ]

[Kalimac]

Goldberry's answer to that question was simply "He is." Hey, if it's good enough for his wife, it's good enough for me. Trying to figure out what Bombadil is an isometry; you go through a lot of agony and end up exactly where you started.

[Birdland]

Uh, Burrahobbit...who was Tom? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Haldir, your own insight of ol' Tom reflects my own definition of him. Though Tolkien paints him as a far more benign image of Nature than is portrayed in the rest of the novel.

Though he does not seek to control, he does seem to have a well-defined since of "good" and "evil" that agrees with our own definitons. He aids the Hobbits in their hour of need, whereas a true "Spirit of Nature" may have said "What did you want me to do? Old Man Willow was hungry".

[Halfir]

Birdland: you make a good point regarding nature and Tom. As with many other aspects of LOTR Tolkien brought a
particular 'Englishness' to his characterizations. Hence the 'humanizing' of 'natural' Tom.

Burrahobbit: you repetitive incantation of Tom's name does nothing to improve your argument, and if you actually believe what you say, you probably also believe the moon is made of green cheese.Moreover you are factually incorrect- Tom Bombadil was a Dutch doll belonging to Tolkien's sonMichael.

[Halfir]

Kalimac: I am sorry that I forgot to respond to your comment in my last post. Having read other contributions of yours in this forum you are far too old a hand not to know the sin of quoting inadequate context. It is quite true, as you quote, that Goldberry in answer to Frodo's question about Tom's provenance says:"He is."But she doesn't stop there. She goes on to elaborate on her initial statement by saying:"He is as you have seen him......He is the Master of wood ,water, and hill." and she goes on to explain even further.

Tom is NOTa character to be labeled with an ME label. That does not mean he is unknowable, and I believe that Tolkien was well aware of whom he was. Everyone quotes the 'Tom is an enigma" phrase from letter #144, but, like Goldberry, Tolkien qualifies what he says"" As a story I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation actually exists),,,And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)." The relevant phrase, I think , is:"especially if an explanation actually exists".

[Gayalondiel]

just to annoy people even more, i heard a theory that tom and goldberry were aule and yavanna. I'll try to find the link, if i can't get it i'll come back with a list of suggested 'evidence'. In the meantime, this'll give people here another name to refuse! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Halfir]

Gayalondiel: those of us who are'trueseekers' after Tom will never be angered by the heretical views put forward by so many, and argued so cogently, if erroneously! The 'Tom is Aule' reference that you seek I suspect is: http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/tombomb.html
It is an excellent essay by Gene Hargrove entitled "Who is Tom Bombadil?"

Hargrove does an firts rate job in reviewing - and demolishing many of the less plausible Bombadil theories , but fails to persuade, in my opinion, that Tom is Aule and Goldberry Yavanna- particularly as he is very selective in the textual support he uses. i.e. he omits text that gainsays his argument.

What I find most interesting about most of the theories about Tom is that they show a complete ignorance of text and textual context referring to him (Hargrove and a few others excepted). A few odd lines are quoted and QED is written as if some truth has been unveiled. If you read ALL the context of Tom in LOTR and look at other writings about him, the truth of his persona shines through, and it is most certainly not that of a ME standard figure.

Moreover, far too many focus on the 'who' question and omit to ask what the significance of Tom's role is in LOTR and why he occurs at that particular point in the story.

[Belin]

Must say I agree with Halfir.. Tom's race, aside from being an inapplicable question (since there don't seem to be any more of his kind), seems less important than his role.

But maybe the two are related?? Is this indefinability part of what/who Tom is? I would say so.... The hobbits ask about him and are not answered, and even Gandalf and Elrond talk as if they didn't really understand him. I think that he's a being of mystery, the embodiment of things that are not properly considered or understood, almost in the same way that the Ents are. (I wonder if THEY know what he is?)

......... So maybe, after all, it is true that Tom is just Tom. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

--Belin Ibaimendi

[Halfir]

Belin: I think you make a very important point when you say of Gandalf and Elrond: "(they) talk as if they didn't really understand him."If Gandalf - a leading Istari - soon to be transformed into Gandalf the White, and Elrond Half-Elven, one of the most important Elven lords, don't know who Tom is, then I see that as fairly conclusive evidence - by inference - that he cannot be Valar or Maia, or a traditional ME character. If he were, they would know.And, as you say, he is one of a kind.

I agree that Tom will always be Tom, but part of the joy is that we are always in pursuit of the enigma- and in that pursuit so many other interesting revelations and ideas come to light. I also believe that from an intensive reading of the text that surrounds Tom in LOTR, and of the other Bombadil writings, canonical or not, together with precursor images of Tom in Lost Tales and other Tolkien writings, Tom as a being standing outsidetraditional ME classification shines through, as does Tom as a, if not the, spirit of Nature.

Birdland has previously perceptively observed that Tolkien treats Tom far more gently as a nature spirit than other characters in the story, where 'nature raw in tooth and claw' emerges more strongly. As I posted in response I think Tom's charcter represents Tolkien's view of nature as he discerned it through the vistas of the English countryside, which is a much less threatening image of nature than that say of the jungles of Amazonian Brazil.

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

Since elves are immortal, and Tom remembers the first drop of rain ect., I think Tom might be one of the first elves, the Father of Elves. Does he have pointy ears?

[Orodhromeus]

The names of the first-born Elves are given in the Silmarillion, and Tom isn't in them. I won't address the issue of Tom's beard. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[burrahobbit]

Really? I can't recall anybody being explicitly stated as being one of the very first elves. One could take a few very good guesses (perhaps Finwe and Cirdan), but to my knowledge they would only be guesses. There is certainly no exhaustive list of all 144 first elves. Also, Cirdan had a beard.

That being said, Tom isn't an elf.

[The Half-Hobbit]

Halfir...you said: Goldberry in answer to Frodo's question about Tom's provenance says:"He is."But she doesn't stop there. She goes on to elaborate on her initial statement by saying:"He is as you have seen him......He is the Master of wood ,water, and hill." and she goes on to explain even further.

However, she only elaborates because Frodo is so confused by her answer. Which I think is probably the best, certainly the most practical answer to this qestion.

When you get right down to it, each character is an enigma like Tom is. I can label them more easily, and I have more experince of their thoughts and behavior, but thats it. The essential 'self' of each of them is something I can only guess at.

[Orodhromeus]

Really? I can't recall anybody being explicitly stated as being one of the very first elves. One could take a few very good guesses (perhaps Finwe and Cirdan), but to my knowledge they would only be guesses. There is certainly no exhaustive list of all 144 first elves. Also, Cirdan had a beard.
That being said, Tom isn't an elf.

OK, my fault. I knew I'd burn my wings when talking of things I'm not sure of. I confess, I haven't read the Silmarillion. Nevertheless I have read elsewhere of the waking of the elves, and there were explicit names cited there; I'll get back to you when I'll have read that. And I thought the do-elves-have-beards is another longly debated issue right next to the Balrog wings, even though Círdan has a beard. But as you stated, that said Tom wasn't an elf. I admire your straightness nevertheless. *runs to hide towards a Silmarillion copy*

[Halfir]

The Half Hobbit:Insofar as we are all unique individual creations I would not disagree with your statement that:"The essential 'self' of each of them is something I can only guess at."But I do think we can know, from textual content , much more about all the characters in LOTR than we can about Tom, who in that sense is unique.

Moreover, I would certainly not accept that each character is an enigma like Tom. The provenance of Gandalf is clear, he is an Istari, sent by the Valar with his compartriots to aid the races of Middle earth against Sauron. Elrond Halfelven's pedigree is clear, as is Aragaron's and Denethor's et.al. Moreover, their characters and charateristics are not veiled in the same way that Tom's are, so I don't think they fit into the same category - not that Tom has yet been adequately fitted into a category, which is what makes him such an interesting individual.

Goldberry says of Tom:"Tom Bombadil is the Master. No one has ever caught old Tom walking in the forest, wading in the water, leaping on the hill-tops, under light and shadow.He has no fear. Tom Bombadil is master."

I think that if you link "No one has ever caught old Tom....under light and shadow." to Tom's later comment of :"He knew the dark under the stars whenn it was fearless"you get a steer as to whom he is.

Tom is Master because he is fearless -"the only thing to fear is fear itself"- and Tom doesn't. He is not controlled by either the forces of light or darkness - 'light and shadow'. He is neither controlled nor does he wish to control -"The trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselves"- Tom respects this.

He only uses control - through his songs, when other entities - Old Man Willow - The Barrow Wight - seek to interrupt or control the freedom of others. In the same way, in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil he uses his powers of song to 'control' Goldberyy, Old Man Willow, a family of badgers, and a Barrow Wight, when they seek to 'catch' him. He is theultimate free spirit because he is a, if not the force of nature.

[Lhunbelethiel]

Reading through this thread, a thought occurred to me... Maybe Tom is "Father Nature"? I know traditionally it's considered "Mother Nature", but maybe Tolien thought of Tom that way.

I am no where near as educated on LOTR, etc as the rest of you, but it was just a thought.

[greyhavener]

I think Tom may be a character that Tolkien created separate from ME but couldn't resist including. I love him, but his lack of involvement outside his realm is sort of disturbing. In LOTR the ring has no power over him, yet he feels no responsibility to take a role in its destruction. He is either a sort of benevolent god who is privvy to what this quest will cause each member of the fellowship to become...one who directs, or at least is knows of their fates. Or he is rather like the selfish gods of Olympus who simply enjoy watching mortals (and elves) twist in the wind. I tend to think the former because there is too much comfort and joy in the Hobbits' experience in his home for me to conclude the latter. Whatever he is, I think his limits are self-imposed. Perhaps he had some bad experience with power that we don't know about.

[Halfir]

Lhunbelethiel: Good point, particularly in our non-sexist world! Why not 'Father Nature' indeed?

Tolkien himself clearly saw an aspect - if not the aspect of Tom as one of Nature. He refers to him in a letter to his publishers in 1937 as "the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside."

Greyhavener: Tom is, as Goldberry rather unhelpfully says. Nature is, also. Tom is in ME because of his connection with Nature, not because he is a product of Iluvatar or the Valar. In that sense he is an external observer, from an older legend, humanized by Tolkien, through his views of the Englsih countryside and its somewhat gently aspected nature, as opposed say to the more violent and dramatic nature of Amazonian Brazil (see my earlier post in this thread).

The language that surrounds Tom is of Nature in general - trees, grasses, all things growing and living - which contrasts say with Beorn's very particualr connection with animals, specifically bears, in The Hobbit.

I don't think Tom is a cynical Olympian or an Elder God made dysfunctional through previously bad experiences with power. Tom is one with Nature, and Nature cannot intervene in the way that art e.g. Iluvatar, Melkor, The Valar,Sauron , can, although as Birdland has posted earlier, Tolkien's 'Anglicization' of Nature through Tom, gives him an unexpected humanity - which is demonstrated in his help to the hobbits in regard to Old Man Willow, and the Barrow Wight.

With regard to your comment on his self-imposed boundaries, this is very much the case as Gandalf makes clear at The Council of Elrond.

I do not think his lack of interest in the Ring is reprehensible. He is part of another, larger and more natural cycle, and the Ring pe se, does not feature in that. He is, however, obsessive about not being '
caught', and that aspect of his personality leads him to help the Hobbits - Tom likes all things to be fearless and free - like himself, again representattive of the freedom of Nature.