Legolas...question! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-08-2002, 03:30 PM

I have a question... is Legolas immortal? A friend and I were talking about that, and we thought he was because he's an elf. Anyone have an answer for me?

Thingol · 01-08-2002, 03:35 PM

All elves are immortal, Legolas is an elf, you do the math [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

zifnab · 01-08-2002, 04:05 PM

Thingol is right, all elves are immortal, I think unless they love/marry a mortal. But if Legolas doesnt do that or get hacked up or trampled by an Oliphaunt he will live for-ever.

[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Gandalf pic

***The Barrow-Wight*** · 01-08-2002, 04:31 PM

Actually, it takes more than love or marriage to make an elf mortal. It takes Valaric (or even higher?) intervention, and there were very few of those throughout the long history of Arda.

Tar Elenion · 01-08-2002, 11:21 PM

Yes, even higher. Eru was the only one who could alter the fate of one of his Children. And he only allowed one Elf to change fate, that being Luthien Tinuviel.

01-09-2002, 04:05 AM

I believe elves can only die in battle or from a broken heart.

Elrian · 01-09-2002, 05:17 AM

Elves can be slain or die of grief.

Elendur · 01-09-2002, 08:08 PM

Tar Elenion, you are forgetting about Arwen. And also, what about Earendil, Earendil's wife (sorry about forgetting her name [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]), Tuor, and such. Dont you think Eru had something to do in all the mens changes as well?

Elrian · 01-10-2002, 12:02 AM

Elwing was Earendils wife. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Elenhin · 01-10-2002, 11:43 AM

Earendil, Elwing and all their descendants were part mortal, and they were given the power to choose their destinies themselves. No direct intervention from Eru was needed, only the decision of the certain individual.

Tar Elenion · 01-10-2002, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elendur:
Tar Elenion, you are forgetting about Arwen. And also, what about Earendil, Earendil's wife (sorry about forgetting her name [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]), Tuor, and such. Dont you think Eru had something to do in all the mens changes as well?

No, I am not forgetting. Luthien was the only _Elf_ allowed to change fate, as I stated above, JRRT refers to her as an 'absolute exception'. The others you named above are not Elves. They are Peredhil (Half-elves), except Tuor, who is a Man (and the only Man allowed to change his fate, JRRT refers to him as a 'unique exception'). However you are correct in that Eru was the one who allowed the exceptions and special position of the Peredhil.

Elrian · 01-11-2002, 12:38 AM

Tuor was allowed to change his fate? Manwe granted the Peredhil the choice of fate. Would that have included Elurid and Elurin as well?

Cirdan the Shipwright · 01-11-2002, 04:29 PM

Yes. In theory, it would also have included Elrond's sons.

However, once someone chose to be mortal, their descendents no longer were given the choice (ie-tough luck for the Numenoreans).

- Cirdan / Maglor68

P.S. - Illuvatar DID intervene, and gave Manwe the power to decide the fate of all half-elves, and it was HE who gave each the choice.

Elrian · 01-11-2002, 11:03 PM

Elladan and Elrohir were Elronds Sons, not Elured and Elurin. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: Elrian ]

Tar Elenion · 01-13-2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elrian:
Tuor was allowed to change his fate? Manwe granted the Peredhil the choice of fate. Would that have included Elurid and Elurin as well?

According to Letter 153 Eru changed Tuor's fate, and thus he was accounted among the Elves.

Manwe granted some of the Peredhil (Earendil, Elwing, Elrond, Eros, Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen) a Choice. Dior, Elured and Elurin are not said to have been granted a Choice, and died before there was any Choice given. It is not unlikely that they were considered mortals and granted the Fate of Men, though some argue otherwise.

01-13-2002, 04:39 PM

Allow me to start by saying that everyone who has posted a reply so far on this subject is WRONG. Elves are Not immortal. at least the kind in the lord of the rings are not. Elves DO live an extreamly long time though, and so in some ways they might be considered Immortal. For instance, Elrond was one of the Elves created by Illuvatar at the Begginning of the world, and he is still alive. But in a way Elves ARE immortal, becauise if one is killed, or dies of old age (highly unlikley) They go to the Caves of (I have forgotten the name, they are ruled by one of the Anuir, the Faunter of Death) Where all souls of all go when they die. There ELF souls (and elf souls only) Wander for about the life span of a man, then are reborn into the world AS THEMSELVES. Not like a reincarnation. Answer your question? if not, Write me.

zifnab · 01-13-2002, 08:29 PM

Quote:

For instance, Elrond was one of the Elves created by Illuvatar at the Begginning of the world, and he is still alive.

Elrond was the SON of Earendil and Elwing, who at the end of the First Age chose to belong to the Firstborn, and remained in Middle-Earth until the end of the Third Age. Oh by the way Elrond was half-elven.

Quote:

Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the World is more single and more poignant therefore, and as the years lengthen ever more sorrowful. For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return.

Taken from the Silmarillion

Elrian · 01-13-2002, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MelkoLordOfDarkness:
Allow me to start by saying that everyone who has posted a reply so far on this subject is WRONG. Elves are Not immortal. at least the kind in the lord of the rings are not. Elves DO live an extreamly long time though, and so in some ways they might be considered Immortal. For instance, Elrond was one of the Elves created by Illuvatar at the Begginning of the world, and he is still alive. But in a way Elves ARE immortal, becauise if one is killed, or dies of old age (highly unlikley) They go to the Caves of (I have forgotten the name, they are ruled by one of the Anuir, the Faunter of Death) Where all souls of all go when they die. There ELF souls (and elf souls only) Wander for about the life span of a man, then are reborn into the world AS THEMSELVES. Not like a reincarnation. Answer your question? if not, Write me.

What was the title of the book you read this in?

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

01-08-2002, 03:30 PM	#1
Quelleuial Guest Posts: n/a	Legolas...question! I have a question... is Legolas immortal? A friend and I were talking about that, and we thought he was because he's an elf. Anyone have an answer for me?

01-08-2002, 03:35 PM	#2
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	All elves are immortal, Legolas is an elf, you do the math [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

01-08-2002, 04:05 PM	#3
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 329	Thingol is right, all elves are immortal, I think unless they love/marry a mortal. But if Legolas doesnt do that or get hacked up or trampled by an Oliphaunt he will live for-ever. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Gandalf pic __________________ Facebook.

01-08-2002, 04:31 PM	#4
*The Barrow-Wight* Night In Wight Satin Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 4,043	Actually, it takes more than love or marriage to make an elf mortal. It takes Valaric (or even higher?) intervention, and there were very few of those throughout the long history of Arda. __________________ The Barrow-Wight

01-08-2002, 11:21 PM	#5
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 369	Yes, even higher. Eru was the only one who could alter the fate of one of his Children. And he only allowed one Elf to change fate, that being Luthien Tinuviel. __________________ Tar-Elenion

01-09-2002, 04:05 AM	#6
elf_princess2002 Guest Posts: n/a	I believe elves can only die in battle or from a broken heart.

01-09-2002, 05:17 AM	#7
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Elves can be slain or die of grief. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-09-2002, 08:08 PM	#8
Elendur Wight Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Arnor Posts: 200	Tar Elenion, you are forgetting about Arwen. And also, what about Earendil, Earendil's wife (sorry about forgetting her name [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]), Tuor, and such. Dont you think Eru had something to do in all the mens changes as well? __________________ Son of Isildur.

01-10-2002, 12:02 AM	#9
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Elwing was Earendils wife. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-10-2002, 11:43 AM	#10
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	Earendil, Elwing and all their descendants were part mortal, and they were given the power to choose their destinies themselves. No direct intervention from Eru was needed, only the decision of the certain individual.

01-11-2002, 12:38 AM	#12
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Tuor was allowed to change his fate? Manwe granted the Peredhil the choice of fate. Would that have included Elurid and Elurin as well? __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-11-2002, 04:29 PM	#13
Cirdan the Shipwright Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 52	Yes. In theory, it would also have included Elrond's sons. However, once someone chose to be mortal, their descendents no longer were given the choice (ie-tough luck for the Numenoreans). - Cirdan / Maglor68 P.S. - Illuvatar DID intervene, and gave Manwe the power to decide the fate of all half-elves, and it was HE who gave each the choice.

01-11-2002, 11:03 PM	#14
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Elladan and Elrohir were Elronds Sons, not Elured and Elurin. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: Elrian ] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-13-2002, 04:39 PM	#16
MelkoLordOfDarkness Guest Posts: n/a	Allow me to start by saying that everyone who has posted a reply so far on this subject is WRONG. Elves are Not immortal. at least the kind in the lord of the rings are not. Elves DO live an extreamly long time though, and so in some ways they might be considered Immortal. For instance, Elrond was one of the Elves created by Illuvatar at the Begginning of the world, and he is still alive. But in a way Elves ARE immortal, becauise if one is killed, or dies of old age (highly unlikley) They go to the Caves of (I have forgotten the name, they are ruled by one of the Anuir, the Faunter of Death) Where all souls of all go when they die. There ELF souls (and elf souls only) Wander for about the life span of a man, then are reborn into the world AS THEMSELVES. Not like a reincarnation. Answer your question? if not, Write me.