Vanyar - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Joy · 06-27-2002, 10:01 PM

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda the Vanyar remained in Valinor. So, were the some of the desendents of the Vanyar in Middle Earth. I know that Galadriel was one.

Also, didn't Thranduil have golden hair? Where did this trait come from? I don't remember any geneologies being done for his family.

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

obloquy · 06-27-2002, 11:09 PM

At Greenbooks, in the recent Q&A update, a question was asked about Legolas' hair, and the hair of his father Thranduil. In response to the answer given by Anwyn (which I thought to be insufficient), I emailed the following:

Quote:

There was no strict rule as to hair color among the Elves. In general, however, the golden hair came from the Vanyar, while the Noldor had dark hair. As for the hair of the Sindar, Tolkien writes this in "Quendi and Eldar," WOTJ:

"The Loremasters also supposed that reference was made [in the name 'Sindar', which means 'grey, pale or silvery grey'] to the hair of the Sindar. Elwe himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwe (as in the case of Círdan). In general the Sindar appear to have very closely resembled the Exiles, being dark-haired, strong and tall, but lithe. Indeed they could hardly be told apart except by their eyes; for the eyes of all the Elves that had dwelt in Aman impressed those of Middle-earth by their piercing brightness."

Text in brackets is mine.

According to The Shibboleth of Fëanor, three of Fëanor's sons apparently had red hair!

So hair color really isn't as indicative as many people believe. Because the Elven tribes were defined by who followed whom, and not necessarily who fathered whom; and since intermarriage between tribes was not forbidden, it would not be inconceivable for Legolas, although Sindarin, to have light hair.

In answer to your first question, I would say it's actually possible that some of the Avari were from the light-haired families that originally made up the Vanyar. Unless it specifically says somewhere that all of the Vanyar stuck to the journey from Cuivienen to the end, I would assume that there were an odd few who, for one reason or another, stuck around in Middle-earth. Maybe one of them married Thranduil's father, and that's how he inherited golden hair? Galadriel is actually only part Vanya, though, being the granddaughter of Finwe and his second wife, Indis of the Vanyar.

Joy · 06-27-2002, 11:32 PM

Thank you much obloquy. This is something that I have wondered about for some time.

I have often wondered if there were any red-headed elves. Thanks for answering that question too. My char in a fan-fic is a red-head Elf.

Elrian · 06-28-2002, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Also, didn't Thranduil have golden hair?

I knew Legolas did, but I don't remember Thranduil having golden hair.

burrahobbit · 06-28-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

I knew Legolas did

How do you know that?

Legolas · 06-28-2002, 11:30 AM

Did you have him over for tea one day?

obloquy · 06-28-2002, 11:39 AM

That lucky duck!!!

Lush · 06-28-2002, 05:45 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that any of Tolkien's writings ever mention the colour of Legolas' hair. It could've been a punk-blue for all we know. Unless, Elrian indeed had him over for tea, in which case one of the raging fan-girls will probably murder her out of jealousy anyway. Beware the fangirls, Elrian! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Oh, and Joy, Maedrhós is the most prominent redhead in all of Elvendom, I believe.

burrahobbit · 06-28-2002, 06:07 PM

Lush is quite correct, Tolkien says nothing of the hair color of Legolas.

06-28-2002, 06:12 PM

I thought he did too. Wow, what a bunch of vultures [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Lush · 06-28-2002, 08:30 PM

Vultures? Where? *ducks*

Elrian · 08-04-2002, 01:36 PM

Now just hold your horses ladies, Lego is not my type, I go for the older more mature type like Elrond or Glorfindel [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] . Old thread though, don't know what I was thinking of that day (Glorfindel [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ), could have seen it somewhere else in another Tolkien based book. Anyway who let these ??????vultures out?????? No point in arguing over old threads. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Everdawn · 04-28-2003, 01:41 AM

Nope, it may say lush, but the exact colour of Legolas hair is never mentioned...

piosenniel · 04-28-2003, 02:04 AM

Here is an interesting link to the Eldar Hair Color Genome:

HAIR COLOR

Morwen Tindomerel · 04-28-2003, 09:09 AM

If I recall correctly Tolkien does specifically state in several drafts that *all* the small tribe of Vanyar go to Aman. On the other hand though the Vanyar are all golden haired I don't think he says anywhere that all blond Elves are Vanyar, (if you follow that). In other words there's no reason to assume that golden hair didn't occur in other tribes.

P.S. If Thranduil was blond there's a reasonably good chance his son was as well.

06-27-2002, 10:01 PM	#1
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Vanyar According to the Encyclopedia of Arda the Vanyar remained in Valinor. So, were the some of the desendents of the Vanyar in Middle Earth. I know that Galadriel was one. Also, didn't Thranduil have golden hair? Where did this trait come from? I don't remember any geneologies being done for his family. [ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

06-27-2002, 11:32 PM	#3
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Thank you much obloquy. This is something that I have wondered about for some time. I have often wondered if there were any red-headed elves. Thanks for answering that question too. My char in a fan-fic is a red-head Elf. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

06-28-2002, 11:30 AM	#6
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Did you have him over for tea one day? __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

06-28-2002, 05:45 PM	#8
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that any of Tolkien's writings ever mention the colour of Legolas' hair. It could've been a punk-blue for all we know. Unless, Elrian indeed had him over for tea, in which case one of the raging fan-girls will probably murder her out of jealousy anyway. Beware the fangirls, Elrian! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Oh, and Joy, Maedrhós is the most prominent redhead in all of Elvendom, I believe. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

06-28-2002, 06:07 PM	#9
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Lush is quite correct, Tolkien says nothing of the hair color of Legolas. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

06-28-2002, 11:39 AM	#7
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 939	That lucky duck!!!

06-28-2002, 06:12 PM	#10
celeborn Guest Posts: n/a	I thought he did too. Wow, what a bunch of vultures [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

06-28-2002, 08:30 PM	#11
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Vultures? Where? ducks __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

08-04-2002, 01:36 PM	#12
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Now just hold your horses ladies, Lego is not my type, I go for the older more mature type like Elrond or Glorfindel [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] . Old thread though, don't know what I was thinking of that day (Glorfindel [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ), could have seen it somewhere else in another Tolkien based book. Anyway who let these ??????vultures out?????? No point in arguing over old threads. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

04-28-2003, 01:41 AM	#13
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	Nope, it may say lush, but the exact colour of Legolas hair is never mentioned... __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

04-28-2003, 02:04 AM	#14
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Here is an interesting link to the Eldar Hair Color Genome: HAIR COLOR __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

04-28-2003, 09:09 AM	#15
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	If I recall correctly Tolkien does specifically state in several drafts that all the small tribe of Vanyar go to Aman. On the other hand though the Vanyar are all golden haired I don't think he says anywhere that all blond Elves are Vanyar, (if you follow that). In other words there's no reason to assume that golden hair didn't occur in other tribes. P.S. If Thranduil was blond there's a reasonably good chance his son was as well.