The Grey Havens - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Theoric Windcaller · 12-11-2003, 10:58 PM

Ok, in the end of the RotK: Frodo and Gandalf sail into the west to the Grey Havens, leaving Sam behind in the Shire.

Now, we all know that beyond the Grey Havens is Valinor, where the immortals dwell. In my mind, I picture the Grey Havens as a very celestial, ethereal place, yet it seems to me that the Grey Havens are only the gate or so, or more like a boundry to mortals, saying, you can't go any further.

Frodo felt more at home in the Shire than in Rivendell, Bree, Lòrien, etc. Why didn't he stay in the Shire? What was the big deal about the Grey Havens, what was so great about it? Now, when I think of Valinor, I think of Heaven, its almost like a physical Heaven on Middle-Earth, but why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like?

Alatariel · 12-11-2003, 11:14 PM

Quote:

why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like?

The Grey Havens are along the west coast of ME, and the dwelling place for Cirdan the Shipwright - and the departure point for Valinor. As for why Frodo felt he had to leave, I'm sure I have seen this in at least one or two other topics. Try the search function. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Theoric Windcaller · 12-12-2003, 10:54 PM

You tell me to try the search function when it would be so much easier to give me the answer right now. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Finwe · 12-14-2003, 01:10 PM

Frodo felt he had to leave because he had been wounded by "knife, tooth, and sting." He would never fully heal from the wounds that he had suffered upon his Quest and they began to make him sicken, a while after he and the other Hobbits returned to the Shire. He mainly needed healing, and the only place where he could get the healing that he needed was in Aman. Frodo also realized that as a martyr figure, he would forever be looked at askance, and would never be completely at home in the Shire that he helped save.

The Grey Havens seemed so magical because they were one of the last settlements of Elves. From there, grey ships would sail West to Aman, bearing Elves who had grown weary of Middle-earth. Frodo and Bilbo could go because they had done great deeds in defense of Middle-earth and needed to be healed from the wounds caused by their possession of the One Ring. Gimli was later allowed to go because he and Legolas had ended the age-old feud between Elves and Dwarves by becoming friends. Some say that Sam also left for Aman, after the death of Rosie. In short, those who did great deeds in defense of Middle-earth and the Free Peoples were allowed to go.

The Grey Havens were a magical place because of the constant presence of the Elves and because Cirdan, one of the mightiest of the Elf Lords yet in Middle-earth, watched over it. Any Elven settlement ruled by an Elf-Lord (or Lady) of great power becme magical through their power.

Quote:

"I thought Elves were all for moon and stars: but this is more elvish than anything I ever heard tell of. I feel as if I was inside a song, if you take my meaning." (Sam)

Haldir looked at them, and he seemed indeed to take the meaning of both thought and word. He smiled, "You feel the power of the Lady of the Galadhrim," he said.

Also, the Sea was a very magical place, as is shown by the "force" that draws all Elves to the Sea. In its sounds are the last vestiges of the Ainulindalë, the Song of the Ainur, that created Arda. That is why many of the Children of Iluvatar are drawn to the Sea, though they know not why.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 2:19 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Finwe ]

Tar-Alcarin · 12-14-2003, 03:17 PM

Im with Finwe. Still making fun of The Perky Ent. lolThat and frodo never got the recognition he deserved. He would have gone throughout his entire life in the shire, and not one person would have asked where did you go. He felt that he needed to Aman. Also Arwen gave up her spot on the ships to Valinor. So now frodo is going with bilbo. They will be the only mortals there. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Elladan and Elrohir · 12-14-2003, 03:38 PM

Except for Sam and later Gimli. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

EDIT: And also, many millenia earlier, Tuor.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:39 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Elladan and Elrohir ]

12-15-2003, 10:22 PM

In any case, Frodo didn't really feel at home in the Shire by the end of the War. He told Sam, "I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me."

In my opinion, he realized how much bigger the world was, and after seeing all he had in his adventure, the Shire didn't have enough for him anymore.

Theron Bugtussle · 12-15-2003, 10:32 PM

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs, Amoki.

Quote:

In my opinion, he realized how much bigger the world was, and...the Shire didn't have enough for him anymore.

OR

"Honey, you just don't do it for me anymore. I have bigger needs--I'm sure you understand...." [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Earendilyon · 12-16-2003, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Now, we all know that beyond the Grey Havens is Valinor, where the immortals dwell. In my mind, I picture the Grey Havens as a very celestial, ethereal place, yet it seems to me that the Grey Havens are only the gate or so, or more like a boundry to mortals, saying, you can't go any further.
(....) What was the big deal about the Grey Havens, what was so great about it? Now, when I think of Valinor, I think of Heaven, its almost like a physical Heaven on Middle-Earth, but why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like?

As pointed out before, the Grey Haves were a departure point for Valinor; that's what drew people (Elves) to it. Like, when many people in the 19th century left for America, they would go through the ports in Europe to get on board. If for the whole of Europe there would have been just one port to embark for America, that port would be as drawing as the Grey Havens was for the Elves.

Jess · 12-21-2003, 08:43 AM

That's a really good way to put it Earendilyon...

Lost One · 12-21-2003, 11:21 AM

Also the Grey Havens, and the land of Lindon around them, are the last surviving remnants of Beleriand (ossiriand, specifically, I think) which might well add to the other-worldly atmosphere.

Finwe · 12-21-2003, 12:12 PM

True. The fact that the region of land that the Grey Havens is situated on, was populated by Elves for a very long time, probably had a lot to do with it. The Elves had the ability to make their surroundings "Elven," in a way. If they lived in one place for a very long time, then their qualities would kind of seep into the land. That was why Rivendell and Lothlorien seemed so restful and peaceful. The land itself became Elven.

12-11-2003, 10:58 PM	#1
Theoric Windcaller Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Following where the wind takes me... Posts: 68	The Grey Havens Ok, in the end of the RotK: Frodo and Gandalf sail into the west to the Grey Havens, leaving Sam behind in the Shire. Now, we all know that beyond the Grey Havens is Valinor, where the immortals dwell. In my mind, I picture the Grey Havens as a very celestial, ethereal place, yet it seems to me that the Grey Havens are only the gate or so, or more like a boundry to mortals, saying, you can't go any further. Frodo felt more at home in the Shire than in Rivendell, Bree, Lòrien, etc. Why didn't he stay in the Shire? What was the big deal about the Grey Havens, what was so great about it? Now, when I think of Valinor, I think of Heaven, its almost like a physical Heaven on Middle-Earth, but why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like? __________________ Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens... -The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: Book 2, Chapter 3)

12-12-2003, 10:54 PM	#3
Theoric Windcaller Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Following where the wind takes me... Posts: 68	You tell me to try the search function when it would be so much easier to give me the answer right now. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens... -The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: Book 2, Chapter 3)

12-14-2003, 03:17 PM	#5
Tar-Alcarin Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Numenore Posts: 108	Im with Finwe. Still making fun of The Perky Ent. lolThat and frodo never got the recognition he deserved. He would have gone throughout his entire life in the shire, and not one person would have asked where did you go. He felt that he needed to Aman. Also Arwen gave up her spot on the ships to Valinor. So now frodo is going with bilbo. They will be the only mortals there. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Miniature Rohirrim armor: $500. Amount of fuel it took pippin to light the beacons: $20. Seeing your two favourite hobbits get wasted and drunk: priceless

12-14-2003, 03:38 PM	#6
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Except for Sam and later Gimli. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] EDIT: And also, many millenia earlier, Tuor. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:39 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Elladan and Elrohir ] __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

12-21-2003, 08:43 AM	#10
Jess Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Northern Mirkwood Posts: 12	That's a really good way to put it Earendilyon... __________________ "You cannot pass. I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."

12-15-2003, 10:22 PM	#7
Amoki Guest Posts: n/a	In any case, Frodo didn't really feel at home in the Shire by the end of the War. He told Sam, "I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me." In my opinion, he realized how much bigger the world was, and after seeing all he had in his adventure, the Shire didn't have enough for him anymore.

12-21-2003, 11:21 AM	#11
Lost One Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 67	Also the Grey Havens, and the land of Lindon around them, are the last surviving remnants of Beleriand (ossiriand, specifically, I think) which might well add to the other-worldly atmosphere.

12-21-2003, 12:12 PM	#12
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	True. The fact that the region of land that the Grey Havens is situated on, was populated by Elves for a very long time, probably had a lot to do with it. The Elves had the ability to make their surroundings "Elven," in a way. If they lived in one place for a very long time, then their qualities would kind of seep into the land. That was why Rivendell and Lothlorien seemed so restful and peaceful. The land itself became Elven. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.