Fate and Downfall - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aylwen Dreamsong · 09-20-2002, 07:25 PM

I just wanted to post something about the Silmarillion, because there was something I noticed last night as I was re-reading it again. I noticed that many, many, MANY (okay, maybe I'm exagerrating) chapters with the words "Downfall", "the Fall of", "Destruction Of", and "the Ruin of". But why were most things so....sad? I know this makes the book as great and enchanting as it is, to see everything go down and come back up again, but why? Why were so many things about the Elves having fruitful and excellent lives, and then it all going downhill, or...down the drain? And...along with those questions (sorry...hehehe) what do you think would have happened if all the Elves had gone to Valinor in the first place?

Thanks for tolerating,
Aylwen [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Morgoth Bauglir · 09-20-2002, 08:10 PM

Theres the doom of mandos working lol.

I think that the elves were never really supposed to go there.....they were supposed to be in ME but the two pillars of light were destroyed. And i recall ulmo saying that he thought they shouldnt.

Oh, i think it would be a much less exciting story, but everything would be...perfect.A utopia i guess.

Tirned Tinnu · 09-21-2002, 01:44 AM

I think it's too easy to write about happy times - we think of Elves as living in a perfect (or near perfect) society. But day after day perfect happiness would probably going to bore us in the end.
What Tolkien and many authors look for is excitement! To have excitiement there must be strife, and antagonist, a hero, a villan.
If you have no force behind a story, it will never go anywhere. There must be motivation for the plot to move.

What would happen if the Elves all went to Varda?
Hum, something entirely different, I suppose. Would Feanor still have made the Silmarils? Would his father and mother even have married? Would Morgoth have been so pushy? Therein you must form your own hypothesis. I dare not, it ventures into the realm of RPG's. Perhaps you could use that as a basis for one, if you like that sort of thing. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

09-20-2002, 07:25 PM	#1
Aylwen Dreamsong The Melody of Misery Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Island of Conclusions (You get there by jumping!)... Posts: 1,147	Fate and Downfall I just wanted to post something about the Silmarillion, because there was something I noticed last night as I was re-reading it again. I noticed that many, many, MANY (okay, maybe I'm exagerrating) chapters with the words "Downfall", "the Fall of", "Destruction Of", and "the Ruin of". But why were most things so....sad? I know this makes the book as great and enchanting as it is, to see everything go down and come back up again, but why? Why were so many things about the Elves having fruitful and excellent lives, and then it all going downhill, or...down the drain? And...along with those questions (sorry...hehehe) what do you think would have happened if all the Elves had gone to Valinor in the first place? Thanks for tolerating, Aylwen [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ ...Come down now, they'll say. But everything looks perfect from far away - Come down now! But we'll stay.

09-21-2002, 01:44 AM	#3
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	I think it's too easy to write about happy times - we think of Elves as living in a perfect (or near perfect) society. But day after day perfect happiness would probably going to bore us in the end. What Tolkien and many authors look for is excitement! To have excitiement there must be strife, and antagonist, a hero, a villan. If you have no force behind a story, it will never go anywhere. There must be motivation for the plot to move. What would happen if the Elves all went to Varda? Hum, something entirely different, I suppose. Would Feanor still have made the Silmarils? Would his father and mother even have married? Would Morgoth have been so pushy? Therein you must form your own hypothesis. I dare not, it ventures into the realm of RPG's. Perhaps you could use that as a basis for one, if you like that sort of thing. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'

09-20-2002, 08:10 PM	#2
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	Theres the doom of mandos working lol. I think that the elves were never really supposed to go there.....they were supposed to be in ME but the two pillars of light were destroyed. And i recall ulmo saying that he thought they shouldnt. Oh, i think it would be a much less exciting story, but everything would be...perfect.A utopia i guess.