Blood of the Westernesse - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Oroaranion · 01-16-2004, 01:48 PM

How does the blood of the Westernesse pass down in generations? I just read that Faramir has more of this blood than Boromir. How does the younger have more than the elder?

The Dark Elf · 01-16-2004, 07:55 PM

i think they just ment he acted more like a westernesse than Boromir

Elassar 516 · 01-17-2004, 01:50 PM

No I think it's possible, it would really mean that his DNA would be closer to the DNA of the Numenoriens.

Finwe · 01-17-2004, 04:16 PM

The Dark Elf, you are rather mistaken. The term "Westernesse" refers to the island of Numenor itself, not to the people who lived there.

Look at it this way, sometimes genetic traits skip generations or siblings. For example, if your father has black hair and your mother has blond hair, you can have black hair and your sibling can have blond hair, but still be your sibling. The inheritance of the "Blood of Westernesse" works the same way. By the time of the Third Age, it was so diluted, especially in Gondor, that it probably skipped generations and siblings like crazy. Denethor had it, but he used it to look into others' minds and judge them harshly. Faramir had it, but he used it to understand others, not judge them. Unfortunately, Denethor loved Boromir more, and the fact that Faramir was that much more "powerful" than his brother probably contributed to the bitterness with which Denethor treated Faramir.

Lily Bracegirdle · 01-21-2004, 01:17 PM

This topic was also discussed in this thread:

The blood of Faramir but not Boromir?

Cheers!

-Lily

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 2:26 PM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

samrohan · 01-22-2004, 03:03 PM

How does the blood of Westernesse pass down a generation?

Is that not simply answered by the fact that a son will get the genes of his father and mother, therefore carry the same blood lineage.

Royal are 'Blue blooded', they also carry down their ligneage.

Eothain Elfwine · 01-23-2004, 08:38 PM

I always thought that Faramir had a different mother than Boromir. I see now that I was mistaken, for both were the sons of Finduilas of Dol Amroth.

Dancing_Hobbit · 01-23-2004, 10:07 PM

Just to poit out: having "the blood of the Westernesse" would really just be the visible or percieptable result of genes that were passed on from Numenorean ancestors. Scince huge numbers of genes would be responsible for these traits, it is perfectly possible to have all manner of gradations of people with "the blood of the Westernesse." My point is, it's not something you have or don't have, it's all a question of genetic makeup. There would have to be a huge range of possibilities, with Faramir happening to fall on the purer end of the spectrum than Boromir.

I would also argue that the distinction has more to do with personality than with physical traits, although personality is at least somewhat determined by genetics (the amount depending on where you stand on the nature versus nurture debate). So the difference is twofold: firstly, siblings (excluding identicle twins) always inherit different genes, otherwise they would look exactly the same, and secondly, it is impossible for two people to grow up in identicle situations, no matter how hard you try. This is both because events are never quite the same and because the way an event affects you is dependant on your reaction to it which is dependant on your genetic makup and previous experiences, so as siblings develope they diverge more and more. Since "the blood of the Westernesse" seems to me to reffer to general temperament as well as physical atributes and no two people (except identical twins - and not necissarilly even them) are ever geneticly identical, Boromir and Faramir would become completely different people, and it just happened by chance that Faramir greatly resembled the men of Westernesse wheras Boromir did not.

Yes I know I'm repeating many things that have already been touched on. I'm sorry. I just have this need to reiterate things in my own words and in what I feel to be a clearer, more concise way. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:09 PM January 23, 2004: Message edited by: Dancing_Hobbit ]

01-16-2004, 01:48 PM	#1
Oroaranion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dol Amroth Posts: 94	Blood of the Westernesse How does the blood of the Westernesse pass down in generations? I just read that Faramir has more of this blood than Boromir. How does the younger have more than the elder? __________________ I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

01-16-2004, 07:55 PM	#2
The Dark Elf Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Angmar Posts: 74	i think they just ment he acted more like a westernesse than Boromir __________________ "Fool of a Took!"

01-17-2004, 04:16 PM	#4
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	The Dark Elf, you are rather mistaken. The term "Westernesse" refers to the island of Numenor itself, not to the people who lived there. Look at it this way, sometimes genetic traits skip generations or siblings. For example, if your father has black hair and your mother has blond hair, you can have black hair and your sibling can have blond hair, but still be your sibling. The inheritance of the "Blood of Westernesse" works the same way. By the time of the Third Age, it was so diluted, especially in Gondor, that it probably skipped generations and siblings like crazy. Denethor had it, but he used it to look into others' minds and judge them harshly. Faramir had it, but he used it to understand others, not judge them. Unfortunately, Denethor loved Boromir more, and the fact that Faramir was that much more "powerful" than his brother probably contributed to the bitterness with which Denethor treated Faramir. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

01-21-2004, 01:17 PM	#5
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	This topic was also discussed in this thread: The blood of Faramir but not Boromir? Cheers! -Lily <font size=1 color=339966>[ 2:26 PM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ] __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

01-22-2004, 03:03 PM	#6
samrohan Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Touring Minas Tirith with Gimli and Legolas Posts: 107	How does the blood of Westernesse pass down a generation? Is that not simply answered by the fact that a son will get the genes of his father and mother, therefore carry the same blood lineage. Royal are 'Blue blooded', they also carry down their ligneage. __________________ I can't believe I have not watched the return of the king yet.

01-17-2004, 01:50 PM	#3
Elassar 516 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sailing into the West...I wish Posts: 58	No I think it's possible, it would really mean that his DNA would be closer to the DNA of the Numenoriens.

01-23-2004, 08:38 PM	#7
Eothain Elfwine Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Plains of Rohan Posts: 38	I always thought that Faramir had a different mother than Boromir. I see now that I was mistaken, for both were the sons of Finduilas of Dol Amroth. __________________ I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

01-23-2004, 10:07 PM	#8
Dancing_Hobbit Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: A fairyland of mists and shadows deep in the emerald wood. Posts: 56	Just to poit out: having "the blood of the Westernesse" would really just be the visible or percieptable result of genes that were passed on from Numenorean ancestors. Scince huge numbers of genes would be responsible for these traits, it is perfectly possible to have all manner of gradations of people with "the blood of the Westernesse." My point is, it's not something you have or don't have, it's all a question of genetic makeup. There would have to be a huge range of possibilities, with Faramir happening to fall on the purer end of the spectrum than Boromir. I would also argue that the distinction has more to do with personality than with physical traits, although personality is at least somewhat determined by genetics (the amount depending on where you stand on the nature versus nurture debate). So the difference is twofold: firstly, siblings (excluding identicle twins) always inherit different genes, otherwise they would look exactly the same, and secondly, it is impossible for two people to grow up in identicle situations, no matter how hard you try. This is both because events are never quite the same and because the way an event affects you is dependant on your reaction to it which is dependant on your genetic makup and previous experiences, so as siblings develope they diverge more and more. Since "the blood of the Westernesse" seems to me to reffer to general temperament as well as physical atributes and no two people (except identical twins - and not necissarilly even them) are ever geneticly identical, Boromir and Faramir would become completely different people, and it just happened by chance that Faramir greatly resembled the men of Westernesse wheras Boromir did not. Yes I know I'm repeating many things that have already been touched on. I'm sorry. I just have this need to reiterate things in my own words and in what I feel to be a clearer, more concise way. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] <font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:09 PM January 23, 2004: Message edited by: Dancing_Hobbit ] __________________ Hobbits bow to nobody! ...Except their plates...