A Question about Beleriand - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Ninth Valar · 11-07-2003, 01:11 AM

I've wondered for a while about the location of Beleriand in relation to the 'current' Middle-Earth. I look at the Blue Mtns and wonder which segment of the old mountains they were, where the east-west rivers that ran through Ossiriand came and where exactly the Grey Havens would have been before the War of Wrath. I have yet to find a map or series of maps that shows the transition from Middle-Earth + Beleriand to what we know of as the Hobbit/LotR era M-E; I can't even find one that shows the lands past the edge of the published maps in LotR.

So my question is simply where was Beleriand in relation to the current M-E maps? It niggles at the back of my mind.

Earendilyon · 11-07-2003, 02:50 AM

Well, the Blue Mountains on the West coast of the LotR map are indeed the Mountains bordering Beleriand on the East (map in the Silm). So, Beleriand was somewhat to West-North-West from the LotR map.
Here's a nice map of Beleriand and the rest of ME in the First Age. More maps you can find at Tolkien Maps.

Eurytus · 11-07-2003, 04:28 AM

For anyone who wants more information on the geography of Middle Earth (one of the aspects that most interests me) might I recommend Karen Wynn Fonstad's "The Atlas of Middle Earth".
This is a fantastic book and unlike some others, seems to be pretty damn accurate. Indeed it gets really into the details of what rock types different geological formations might be comprised of and all sorts.
Really, really good book. Best Tolkien book I have bought that has not been written by the man himself and I include all of Christopher Tolkien's stuff (with the exception of the Silmarillion, Lost Tales and Unfinished Tales in that).

Olorin_TLA · 11-07-2003, 11:35 AM

The Blue Mountains are where they always were, though borken, aming Beleriand West of Middle-earth in LotR...in the Sea, actually, as it was entirely destoryed save for a few islands and sunk under the sea. Which is why it's not there. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] The Grey Havens didn't exsit, as where they are in LotR was dry land back then. However, when Beleriand collapsed under the Sea, lots of water surged up the River Lhun and thoruhg the blue Mountains, creating a huge Gulf (the Gulf of Lhun), which is where the Havens were established in the newly-flooded area at the start of the Second Age.

Lost One · 11-07-2003, 01:56 PM

Isn't Lindon the only part of old Beleriand still above water in the Third Age? (apart from Turin's funeral spot, perhaps.)

***Mithadan*** · 11-07-2003, 02:35 PM

The portions of Beleriand which remained above water were Lindon, Tol Fuin (a segment of Dorthonion), Himling (the top of Himring, the hill where Maedhros had his fortress) and Tol Morwen (Turin's grave). Some of these islands may have been "legendary". I believe I also read that the top of the Noldorin burial mound, Haudh-en-ndengin, was also an island, though I don't recall the source.

Legolas · 11-07-2003, 05:05 PM

Other threads on the same topic:

Beleriand - a part of Middle-earth?
Beleriand and Middle-earth
Maps of Middle-earth and Beleriand
maps - a question
Where is...

The Ninth Valar · 11-07-2003, 06:51 PM

Thanks for the info.

Suffice it to say, I think in the next edition of the Atlas, a map of all of Middle Earth with nice dotted lines indicating First, Second and Third age geography should be included. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ November 07, 2003: Message edited by: The Ninth Valar ]

Olorin_TLA · 11-08-2003, 09:16 AM

Well in the double-page spread for the Second Age dotted lines indicate Beleriand and it's major features. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

11-07-2003, 01:11 AM	#1
The Ninth Valar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The other side of over there Posts: 23	A Question about Beleriand I've wondered for a while about the location of Beleriand in relation to the 'current' Middle-Earth. I look at the Blue Mtns and wonder which segment of the old mountains they were, where the east-west rivers that ran through Ossiriand came and where exactly the Grey Havens would have been before the War of Wrath. I have yet to find a map or series of maps that shows the transition from Middle-Earth + Beleriand to what we know of as the Hobbit/LotR era M-E; I can't even find one that shows the lands past the edge of the published maps in LotR. So my question is simply where was Beleriand in relation to the current M-E maps? It niggles at the back of my mind. __________________ This is not for you.

11-07-2003, 02:50 AM	#2
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	Well, the Blue Mountains on the West coast of the LotR map are indeed the Mountains bordering Beleriand on the East (map in the Silm). So, Beleriand was somewhat to West-North-West from the LotR map. Here's a nice map of Beleriand and the rest of ME in the First Age. More maps you can find at Tolkien Maps. __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.

11-07-2003, 04:28 AM	#3
Eurytus Wight Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: England Posts: 179	For anyone who wants more information on the geography of Middle Earth (one of the aspects that most interests me) might I recommend Karen Wynn Fonstad's "The Atlas of Middle Earth". This is a fantastic book and unlike some others, seems to be pretty damn accurate. Indeed it gets really into the details of what rock types different geological formations might be comprised of and all sorts. Really, really good book. Best Tolkien book I have bought that has not been written by the man himself and I include all of Christopher Tolkien's stuff (with the exception of the Silmarillion, Lost Tales and Unfinished Tales in that). __________________ "This is the most blatant case of false advertising since my suit against the movie The Neverending Story!" Lionel Hutz

11-07-2003, 11:35 AM	#4
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	The Blue Mountains are where they always were, though borken, aming Beleriand West of Middle-earth in LotR...in the Sea, actually, as it was entirely destoryed save for a few islands and sunk under the sea. Which is why it's not there. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] The Grey Havens didn't exsit, as where they are in LotR was dry land back then. However, when Beleriand collapsed under the Sea, lots of water surged up the River Lhun and thoruhg the blue Mountains, creating a huge Gulf (the Gulf of Lhun), which is where the Havens were established in the newly-flooded area at the start of the Second Age. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

11-07-2003, 02:35 PM	#6
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,381	The portions of Beleriand which remained above water were Lindon, Tol Fuin (a segment of Dorthonion), Himling (the top of Himring, the hill where Maedhros had his fortress) and Tol Morwen (Turin's grave). Some of these islands may have been "legendary". I believe I also read that the top of the Noldorin burial mound, Haudh-en-ndengin, was also an island, though I don't recall the source. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

11-07-2003, 01:56 PM	#5
Lost One Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 67	Isn't Lindon the only part of old Beleriand still above water in the Third Age? (apart from Turin's funeral spot, perhaps.)

11-07-2003, 05:05 PM	#7
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Other threads on the same topic: Beleriand - a part of Middle-earth? Beleriand and Middle-earth Maps of Middle-earth and Beleriand maps - a question Where is... __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

11-07-2003, 06:51 PM	#8
The Ninth Valar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The other side of over there Posts: 23	Thanks for the info. Suffice it to say, I think in the next edition of the Atlas, a map of all of Middle Earth with nice dotted lines indicating First, Second and Third age geography should be included. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [ November 07, 2003: Message edited by: The Ninth Valar ] __________________ This is not for you.

11-08-2003, 09:16 AM	#9
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Well in the double-page spread for the Second Age dotted lines indicate Beleriand and it's major features. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"